Apache's are shipping!

[fire1811]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
From WARPIG:
"The Apache is not however, a force feed loader, it is still an agitating design. "

And 18-19 bps?!? How?

The WARPIG hopper test conclusively showed that anything relying on gravity tops out at 13bps and is really only reliable to 11.5bps.

Or is Apache going to borrow the WAS marketing claim of on-chip AI and being able to 'bounce' the paint with the paddles?

I don't know which is more pathetic. None of the regular paintball information sites testing ALL hoppers the same way, none of the manufacturers showing the same type of test (HALO could disprove everyone), or the fact paintballs are so quick to swallow any hype fed to them (manufacturers impossible claims of 18-19bps) and even invent some themselves (thinking this new hopper is force fed) to justify their rush to incinerate their cash as quickly as possible.


Agitating hoppers (original revy) were proven by WARPIG to be WORSE than a tube feed. All the software and fancy hype just barely allow them to OCCASIONALY go faster than a tube feed (the occasional 13 bps compared to reliable 11.5 bps).

so you have used and tested it??

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by fire1811
so you have used and tested it??

Don't need to. Physics and the proof of previous testing shows the claims are garbage.

The absolute best any gravity feed agitating hopper can do is 11.5 bps reliably and occasionally 13.5bps with jams, burps, or chops.

About the only great advantage this new hopper might have is it may be able to feed more reliably from completely full (as noted in the WARPIG article).

Even the WARPIG hopper test is far from extensive and could do with more data. For instance it would be interesting to see the results of hoppers being emptied from various capacities and continuous rate of fire. Then the performance could be better compared between them all. But I figure it wouldn't really be worth it because the results are fairly easy to guess.

Full, some will jam and feed unreliably at any speed.
Midfill, all except the HALO will just keep up with or barely surpass a tube feed. Some may even have trouble keeping up with the tube feed.
Empty, all except the halo will have difficulty keeping up with a tube feed.

Add a Warp to any hopper and get bursts upto 16.6bps (or more if you modify it).

[Fixion]

Among other things I just installed Apache 1.3.29 on a new server.

[Python14]

Finally, I faster Rico. I have been wanting a faster rico for ages because I hate the look of Eggys, Revys, and Halos.

[barrel break]

Originally posted by yeahthatsme
its a force-fed ricochet...

um, no, its still an agitation fed loader

[fire1811]

Originally posted by barrel break

um, no, its still an agitation fed loader

yes that has been said 3 times now

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Python14
Finally, I faster Rico. I have been wanting a faster rico for ages because I hate the look of Eggys, Revys, and Halos.

What could possibly make anyone think this will feed faster?

The only thing it's guarenteed to do faster is part you from your cash.

[Mossman]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast


What could possibly make anyone think this will feed faster?

The only thing it's guarenteed to do faster is part you from your cash.

slarty, are you being serious? The eggo2 isn't "force fed" because it isn't putting constant pressure on the balls, but it does sort out 6 balls and can deliver them all in 1 full turn of the impellar. The impellar does not take half a second to spin once.

Have you ever used an eggo2? I'm not saying it's the fastest thing under the sun, but they do feed 15-16bps and it is faster than gravity.

Sneaky hacker dumped the whole hopper worth in 10 seconds he said, does the hopper hold less than 130 balls? I doubt it.

Just step off this issue, it's not the end of the world.

It's OBVIOUS to me why this would feed faster. The apache doesn't merely bat balls around so they have a better chance of falling into a hole, it pushes balls down the hole. Simple.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Mossman
It's OBVIOUS to me why this would feed faster. The apache doesn't merely bat balls around so they have a better chance of falling into a hole, it pushes balls down the hole. Simple.

That's not obvious from the pics on WARPIG. It's just an agitating hopper with a catch cup at the bottom.

The only obvious advantage IMO of the design is that it might be less likely to jam when the loader is full.

As for the egg, well I'd like to see it perform in the WARPIG test. People made all kinds of claims about Turborevs. Reality is that if it depends on gravity for the drop into the bore, it's only your imagination that your feeding faster.

[FutureMagOwner]

hmmm to me it look almost exactly the same in how it feeds as the egg does except the egg does it at an angle but the rico drops straight down.

[sneakyhacker420]

since this argument is on going... i just thought that i'd add my reveiw of the Apache after two days of testing


its significantly lighter than an eggo, and especially a HALO, the shells refuse to break - i dropped it on the ground in the deadbox - the same deadbox where i cracked the neck off of my POS BE revvy

i had it on my x-mag for the mostpart, with my friend borrowing it for his shortblock

i was never able to outshoot the Apache no matter how hard i ripped - and trust me, i can EASILY hit some nice 19-20bps strings in the chrono range, apache had no problem keeping up

and overally, through the weekend, i saw no slowing of feeding because of batteries that wore out, which i'll usually see in a revvy, halo, or eggy

a few people thought it was funny that i had a rico on my gun, until i pointed out the apache logo on the side and the new paddle design - i convinced a couple people that it might be a good switch from their current loader







and all about the gravity stuff and warpig's tests - that specifies that an UNORGANIZED jumble of paintballs in a loader cannot drop faster than 13 bps or whatever - in a complete stacked tube of 100 balls - like a long arse 10-round tube, it was TESTED, RE-TESTED, and PROVEN that an ORGANIZED stack of balls can fall in excess of 56 BPS

revvy's and normal ricos, along with TSA's and the similar simply adgitate the balls to keep the flow partially continious, but does nothing towards the designation of organizing the balls before they enter the feedneck

the Evo II's and Apache's use a catch cup or line up a series of balls - or what would be called organizing balls, and the paddle pushes them into the feedneck

having the catch cup of pre-organized balls gives a larger reserve of balls that can feed at a higher rate

its basically when you're looking for your closet for something

pretend that the feedneck is the designated item, and the paintball is you rummaging through your closet

if all the shelves were organized in your closet, it would be easy to find what you're looking for, but flip-flop that, and say that your closet was a complete mess - in that case, you'd have a harder time finding what you needed

thats basically how it works

when the balls are organized, they can 'find' the feeneck faster and simply drop through, instead of being in a jumble and fighting for which one is gonna fall down the feedneck first

apply that for once, sure the closet thing may be cheezy, but it explains one large factor in this argument - that you're wrong :o

[FragTek]

Get a Z'd Egg :) Sneaky is a boner... rofl.

[sneakyhacker420]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast


That's not obvious from the pics on WARPIG. It's just an agitating hopper with a catch cup at the bottom.

The only obvious advantage IMO of the design is that it might be less likely to jam when the loader is full.

i just noticed this post from you... if you saw my damned pictures with the new production propellor, you'd see that its not as flexible as a standard rico propellor, and is able to put more pressure on the balls, but still flex, and as i said before, it doesn't adgitate, it organizes

and as far as jamming goes, i crammed paint in there like i would with a pod - let a few extra balls stay on top and cram them in - had no problem feeding... it didnt even have to 'unjam' it simply fed as it was supposed to, once again because it organizes the balls at the bottom, instead of just pushing them around

[The Deacon]

Sneaky, what are the dimensions on that bad boy? Top to the bottom of the feedneck, length and width, please.

I've been using ricos for a year now and loving them, but they're too slow and my egg2 keeps pissing me off. I just don't want a even bigger blimp hanging off of my gun.

Also, how many balls can you cram in there, and then how fast does it dump 'em on fresh batteries? That'll clear up all the bps arguments. Thanks in advance.

[sneakyhacker420]

7" tall from bottom of feedneck to the highest point on the lid

and

10 1/4" long from side of LCD screen to the tip

and

~4" the widest point


as far as ball capacity and the feed rate, i'll do that on my lunch break around 1 or 2 today