The Badger - The Australian Auto-Mag Clone

[WARPED1]

Any clue on release dates for the Advent?

[nerobro]

Wow... People haven't mentioned the "patriot" by name yet. That was the brittish automag CLONE. Just beucase a gun shares the same operating principal doesn't necessarily mean it's a clone.

Angels, timmys, impulses, vikings, tribals, and bk2k's are all ram driven hammer type guns. They are all different. they take different approaches to stiction control. They take different approaches to regulator placement. They are dimentionally different.

Or.. if you'd like a mechanical gun analogy. The Typhoon, soverign, cocker, and blazer are all just as simmilar to each other as the badger is to an automag. :-)

Or if you want a fairly complete list of blowforward guns, we have the sidekick semi, the equalizer, the badger, the desert fox, the patriot, and the mag.

On a final note, pattents tend not to hold much weight internationally. AGD took care of the patriot problem by beating them at their own game. AGD sold their gun cheaper.

[Prairie]

As someone who has seen the inside of the advent...as well as heard tom kaye talk to josh gore at the IAO.

All things between OTB and AGD are good...for the privacy of both parties, I won't say much more on the discussion.


And yes, the advent will rock.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even if AGD wanted to sue the maker of this marker could they.

I mean if AGD even has a patent ( not sure if they do) another company could still use that design as long as they were not in the US or imported products to the US.

[DementedRabbit]

Originally posted by MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata
Correct me if I am wrong, but even if AGD wanted to sue the maker of this marker could they.

Kinda moot considering the designer of this marker has kinda left the mortal plane.

[magman109]

Earlier in this thread someone said the advent weighs 1.5 lbs. . .and then someone said its lighter cause it weighs 1lb, 5 oz. . . which is it? Its not the same weight. If its 1.5 lbs thats 1lb 8 oz, 3 oz heavier than the other quoted weight which makes it only 7 oz lighter and thats without reg and barrel still. . just wanted to point that out.

Pat

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by magman109
Earlier in this thread someone said the advent weighs 1.5 lbs. . .and then someone said its lighter cause it weighs 1lb, 5 oz. . . which is it? Its not the same weight. If its 1.5 lbs thats 1lb 8 oz, 3 oz heavier than the other quoted weight which makes it only 7 oz lighter and thats without reg and barrel still. . just wanted to point that out.

Pat

All the weights are listed in the advertisment that I previously posted.

There are 3 versions.

Advent=2lb

Advent S=1.5lbs

Advent GTS=1.3lbs

[JEDI]

Originally posted by melster
"1.5 lbs without barrel and regulator"

Wow. So we're talking grip frame and body here. My ULE RTP weighs 1.5 lbs without the barrel, but WITH the regulator.

Of course, that's without the foregrip and sight rail, but who keeps those on anyway?

I weigh 215 lbs without pants or shoes.

[melster]

Originally posted by JEDI

I weigh 215 lbs without pants or shoes.

Thanks a lot for volunteering that info. Now, if only I could rip that image out of my head...

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by JEDI

I weigh 215 lbs without pants or shoes.

And he's only 4'3".................

[Oddball]

What I found really strange was that the guy (Bruce) dressed up as a borg, just like TK.

[Fred]

the only similarity between a Sov and an auto-cocking system is that it has an LPR and X-way attached to the trigger... otherwise its pretty unique... nobody uses (or had used) a ram-bolt before.

I gotta pick one up...

---Fred

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

patents

I guess my question with the AGD patent is what they see as being an infringement. Are they looking to do a SP-esque move and patent the general principle of a bolt being fired by a pre-pressurized chamber and resetted by a spring after it's vented at the forward part of its movement (which to me would be like another company patenting open bolt blowbacks or the generic spool valve concept)?

Or are they being more specific and patenting the whole idea of the AIR valve so that if someone made a blow forward design gun that was different from an automag in a significant way or utilized the general blow forward concept of a cylinder being released and fired forward by a prepressured chamber held by a sear and resetted by a spring would not be infringing upon a patent?

I guess the question on the laws of this would be interesting, and exactly what AGDs initial patent was for. If blow forward ever became as mainstream as E-markers, could AGD pull a SP act and expand their patent, putting anyone who utilized the technology in any way into the crapper? Choosing not to defend it and not being able to defend it is whole different games

[Gadget]

Originally posted by nerobro
[B]Wow... People haven't mentioned the "patriot" by name yet. That was the brittish automag CLONE. Just beucase a gun shares the same operating principal doesn't necessarily mean it's a clone.

The Automag clone was the COLONIAL, not the Patriot. It was a direct 'mag rip-off made by EPS in the UK, minus the tight tolerances and minus (oddly) the Z-lock pin. They made a 68 mag clone, minimag clone and some huge two handed beast as well. It didn't sell well simply because it was a piece of junk compared to a real Automag. :)

The Patriot (full name SAM Patriot) was manufactured by another UK company, Daystate (still a respected maker of air rifles) and was virtually identical to an Icon Z-1 (blowback semi). I owned one before I bought my 'mag in 1993.

I dug out this advert from the May 1994 issue of paintball adventures, have got one of the two hander somewhere: