Integrity

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata
and in every sport there are cheaters

Sure, but in no other sport the continuous whining and justification of the cheaters isn't tolerated.

And at professional levels, serious infractions get you into serious trouble and jepordise your game, possibly even your career.

In paintball, even scum (Salm) that interfere with the game in an unquestionable manner have people who will defend them and they eventually get back into the sport.

[tony3]

What about baseball players clearing there benches and beating the crap out of eachother? Paintball players have got in fights and it wasn't like it was never going to happen. Paintball is probably the most intense game there is, and yes when people fight they do get suspened. Salm got banned from the whole 03 nppl season, I think that was a good punishment. What about layosa? He knocked a person out and got banned from Pan Am tournies. Personally, I think leagues need 1 ref per player, that would solve most cheating problems.

[ramenjames]

Originally posted by kenndogg
considering ths sport is made up of mostly teenagers, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

dude dont pigeon hole teens.....im a teenager and i have never once wiped or cheated in any way or any kind
i love this sport and do everything in my power to be an ambassador and positve represenative of it

[Bolter]

i think you lack integrity in thinking all teenagers are the same, and im 26 by the way.

[trains are bad]

Cheaters suck. The way to get rid of them is make it really not worth it to cheat. Which mean better reffing and way way harsher penalties for cheating. Doesn't hurt me since I don't cheat.

[Sir_Brass]

Too bad cheaters, for they have no honor, no ethics, no morals. if they do it on the field, then I bet they'd do it in their careers if there weren't serious consequences to their actions, and that sickens me.

Honor is extremely important to me. One of my non-biblical mantras is from the movie scarface:

"All I have is my honor and my balls, and I don't bust 'em for nobody."

I'm worthless if no one can take my word at face value b/c I have no honor. I'd rather call out on a bounce than keep playing on b/c the hit was unobvious.

The game eventually ends, and the prize $$ is eventually spent and no more, but the memories remain. Dishonor is a taint that is hard to get rid of, while the badge of honor is a strong memory, but not as strong as the memory of dishonor. Show yourself as dishonorable, and you'll spend the rest of your pballing days trying to erase that image and never quite succeed.

[tyrion2323]

who is this salm dude?

[Sir_Brass]

the biggest cheater to ever stain paintball.


the morning of a big tourney, he supposedly told his team that he was sick and couldn't play that day, so they got a replacement. during a game, however, one of the opposing team members was in the deadbox and wondering how he was eliminated since he was shot in teh back but hadn't been bunkered or fully flanked. He then turns around and sees in the woods a flash of blonde hair. without a warning, he sprints out of the play zone and tackels salm, who had been hiding in the woods in all black, and had been sniping opposing team members.

salm's team was forced to forfeit their games for that ONE tourney, and salm was kicked off the team and banned ONLY from the NPPL for 2 years. Now he's playing in another league and is team captain for another team. yeah, he got punished alright

[kenndogg]

Originally posted by ramenjames


dude dont pigeon hole teens.....im a teenager and i have never once wiped or cheated in any way or any kind
i love this sport and do everything in my power to be an ambassador and positve represenative of it

well lets see here, what group makes up the majority of the paintball community? hmm...thats right teens. When you have a high number of a certain group(in this case teens) chances are those involved in incidents would be in that group. So statistically my comments were correct. I could also make a statment that paintball is a white dominate sport since the majority of players are white. Why is that? because statistics shows it.

Originally posted by Bolter

i think you lack integrity in thinking all teenagers are the same, and im 26 by the way.

care to explain why? did I ever say "ALL" teens? Use some common sense before you post please.

[JuggaloDave]

yeah, i do hafta agree with the teens kinda ruin things sometimes, SOOOMETIIMES, cause they tend to get noticed more when they act out. i am not going to say all, alot of the younger ppl on here i am sure stay true to their game, and i respect every last one of you, rather i like you or not, i respect you regaurdless. but it goes with the same reason ppl think all juggalos are poo stirers cause all the 12-16y/o kids calling themselves juggalos are the loudest ones when they start fights, vandalize stuff, and act like idiots, and act a damn fool in public places ppl notice it more then when 2 perfect stangers notice each other sporting a hatchet man belike "whut up ninja?" and then go about they way. now, i have played paintball seince i was 14/15, and played the majority of my teen years, and i am only 18, almost 19(woo woo) and i notice alot more stuff that the younger group of kids out there seem to be doing that looks bad. seems to be a rash of kids with bad attitudes, but it is alot worse with the ppl around 19-21 or a full adult even, going all out at rec ball, and screaming, telling ppl "get the f*** off my feild", so i dont know. i think more ppl just need better morals, young and old alike, there is way to much hate everywhere, from your gun to your dang jersey or tank gaurd. i mean shoot, i think i see more person intergety at a street race, cause at the end ppl usually still check out each others rides and shakes hands at the end.

[Garrum]

Finding integrity in the PB community is a bit like finding your soul-mate. If you look in the high profile locations, such as singles bars and NPPL tourneys, you will most likely be met with severe dissapointment.

The honor muscle has been neglected for a good long while, not just in paintball either. I'm talking about just about everything that has human finger prints on it. It has been replaced with the drive to win at all costs, even your good name.

And even the drive to win has been perverted. It is no longer enough to simply win, Oh no. Now you have to grind your opponent into the dirt, just to prove that you are the baddest Mike Foxtrot around. Do anything you can to try and gain an edge, to include deriding your opponent's equipment before the game, and generally insulting and threatening them to try and throw off their game. Ahhh, to bask in the warm glow of good sportsmanship.

And unfortunately, playing with honor has no real, tangible upside to it. Well, other than being known as the guy/gal who is the straightest dealer in the house. You are, simply put, hamstringing yourself when you go up against those who do not play with honor. If they are playing on unless the ref forces them off the field when hit, and you leave as soon as you are hit, before the ref says anything, then who has an advantage? If they are wiping and you are calling yourself out on heavy splatter, who has the advantage? It is a literal case of 'crime does pay'.

The only real way to combat this, that I see anyway, is something that isn't happening, at least not yet. The cheaters and benders must be ostracized by the PB community as a whole. If Franky Franklin, who plays on team Jiggly Wiggly out of Dolomite, Alaska, is caught wiping/playing on/shooting hot, whatever, then any time he and his team show up for a tourny, everyone else withdraws, unless he is prohibited from playing. If the tourny producers aren't willing to do this, then let team Jiggly Wiggly play against themselves, and win back their entrance fee.

And that is a non-offical solution. If the rule makers would actually crack down of cheaters, and impose actual harsh penalties for cheating, then it would be a much curbed practice. And by harsh, I mean in that in tournaments, for the first offense your team is ejected from the tourny. For the second offense you and your team are banned from the league for 1 year, and are fined $1000, and your name is passed on to all other leagues as a known cheater. For the third offense, you are banned for life, your team is disbanded permanently, and you must walk to your car with no escort. For Rec-play at an established field, first offense, your day is over. Second offense, banned for six months, and your name passed around to other fields. Third offense, banned for life. And honestly, these could actually be tougher. I'm going easy on them.

If we, as the paintball community as a whole, can crush the unsportsman like behavior, then we can proudly proclaim to the public at large, "Do you see the integrity that we display on the field? Can you feel the honor that we play the game by? Can you say the same of your other sports? How can you have anything negative to say about us, when our sport teaches the players that cheating is wrong and is not to be tolorated or excused? When it expels those who display unsportsman like habits?" Will this happen anytime soon? Probably not. It would be nice if I was wrong though.

[trains are bad]

And by harsh, I mean in that in tournaments, for the first offense your team is ejected from the tourny. For the second offense you and your team are banned from the league for 1 year, and are fined $1000, and your name is passed on to all other leagues as a known cheater. For the third offense, you are banned for life, your team is disbanded permanently, and you must walk to your car with no escort. For Rec-play at an established field, first offense, your day is over. Second offense, banned for six months, and your name passed around to other fields. Third offense, banned for life. And honestly, these could actually be tougher. I'm going easy on them.

Word up. Think it's harsh? Don't cheat. Hence the point.


Another thing if paintball gets big is they need more cameras. On Tv they can replay a call in baseball in slow motion over.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by trains are bad
Another thing if paintball gets big is they need more cameras.

I always wondered if this couldn't be accomplished fairly easily.

Allow for video evidence to be presented to head/ultimate refs during a given time frame after each match. Have specific cheating/penalties that can be assesed and specific after game penalties.

Then every team may just have a "video guy" on the roster. The finals would risk having several cameras on EACH player as all the teams that were beaten by each of the competing teams might have a grudge to settle.

Of course you'd need some kind of penalty/control to limit the number of spurious claims.

[GT]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
then every team may just have a "video guy" on the roster.

uhhh no,
we need unbiased reffing, which this is not.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by gtrsi
uhhh no,
we need unbiased reffing, which this is not.

But it would be completely unbiased. The tape would have to reviewed by an official before any penalty was asessed.

Unless of course someone comes to the field with a CGI video editing suite....