Integrity

[SlartyBartFast]

Another enforcement idea I had really ties into the "Integrity" theme.

How about fining teams who are caught cheating at an event afterwards? Lots of people have said that they've seen evident cheating in nearly all the DVDs/Videos produced of major tournaments.

In all the Major Leagu sports, the commisioner can levy a fine on a player or team for "conduct unbecoming" or rule infractions that can't be or weren't dealt with during the game or even player or team conduct outside a game.

Do the same with paintball. If a team cheats during an event, whether they win or not, fine them for any and all incidents for with evidence surfaces after the event.

After all, the vidoes damage the integrity and reputation of the event/series.

Enforcing the fines could be simple. If the team (or even members of the team) want to participat in other events by the same organisation, they have to pay-up.

[Dryden]

Hmm, does anyone think that integrity and sportsmanship might be different today because of the purses associated with major tournaments?

Let me phrase it this way ...

My teammates and I have been playing paintball for well over ten years now. We began playing in high school, about '90 or '91, and of course, had to play outlaw since there weren't many facilities available back then. Speedball was just something we looked at in pages of APG or PSI, Airball/Xball wasn't being done - or if it was, few people knew of it.

Back then, you played mostly amongst your closest friends, and you played on the honor system. Without refs you had to play fair, otherwise the game just didn't work. Cheaters were dealt with inside the group, and the worst offenders were simply not ever invited back to play.

To add to this, most people (young and old) knew of the importance of the 'image' of the sport. You didn't use the marker for acts of vandalism - not just out of common sense, but because there was a very serious threat of paintball being litigated out of existence in the early days.

Most people who played were tinkerers and wannabe airsmiths ... probably all AutoCocker owners today

Contrast with today.

Instead of getting started with a Splatmaster or a sub $75 second hand marker, people go straight for the $600+ e-markers, because the magazines tell them that ROF is king, and if it says Dye on it, you'll be a better player.

Instead of hitting the GI surplus store for $40 in old cammies, there is the $300 JT outfit with matching shoes, gloves, and overnight bag.

Forget the $25 Whipper Snappers ... a modest goggle system will set you back $75 - $175 after fans, reflective mirror lenses, and Motorola Talk-About.

Most players today have a budget well into the thousands of dollars dedicated to their paintball hobby, and that's just the entry level. After investing that kind of cash, while I don't think it's justifiable, I can at least empathize with why a person might decide to wipe their first hit when they've been eliminated 30 seconds into a game. For many, they just want to get their monies worth.

Owww man, my backup marker cost me $1200, and I didn't even get to pull the trigger on THIS one yet!

Now, add to this the change in what draws people into the sport. Ten years ago, it was, "Hey, my buddies and I play this game called paintball every other weekend, it's a lot of fun. Wanna play?"

Today, the conversation probably goes more like, "Man, last week we played in this tournament, it was cool. We only finished in fourth place, but at least that was good for free Halos! You want to join our team?"

The sport has fundamentally changed in the past five or six years. Money corrupts.

Yes, I recognize that big money tournaments were being run ten and even fifteen years ago. But those looked like a local Bowling League compared to the tournaments of today.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I don't think this problem descriminates between age or gender, though since mostly young male teens are taking up the sport, it just seems more apparent in that demographic.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by JuggaloDave
yeah, i do hafta agree with the teens kinda ruin things sometimes, SOOOMETIIMES, cause they tend to get noticed more when they act out. i am not going to say all, alot of the younger ppl on here i am sure stay true to their game, and i respect every last one of you, rather i like you or not, i respect you regaurdless. but it goes with the same reason ppl think all juggalos are poo stirers cause all the 12-16y/o kids calling themselves juggalos are the loudest ones when they start fights, vandalize stuff, and act like idiots, and act a damn fool in public places ppl notice it more then when 2 perfect stangers notice each other sporting a hatchet man belike "whut up ninja?" and then go about they way. now, i have played paintball seince i was 14/15, and played the majority of my teen years, and i am only 18, almost 19(woo woo) and i notice alot more stuff that the younger group of kids out there seem to be doing that looks bad. seems to be a rash of kids with bad attitudes, but it is alot worse with the ppl around 19-21 or a full adult even, going all out at rec ball, and screaming, telling ppl "get the f*** off my feild", so i dont know. i think more ppl just need better morals, young and old alike, there is way to much hate everywhere, from your gun to your dang jersey or tank gaurd. i mean shoot, i think i see more person intergety at a street race, cause at the end ppl usually still check out each others rides and shakes hands at the end.

What up ninja! I know exactly what you feel cause I myself have been a juggalo for many years. I went through JrHigh and H.S being called various names because of a band I like. Now being 22 on my way to 23 people could care less. In fact I get more comments on my jersey then anything (Psychopathic BMX jersey). Back to the point.

Just cause one group dominates a sport doesn't necessarily mean they are the cheaters. In fact you say the sport is mostly white I wanna see those stats. Cause out here in SoCal the "Asian" decents are out in force. Get stats before you blame. No one group is more into cheating then the next. I've seen adults do it and I've seen kids do it. It's even steven if ya ask me. Just plain and simply we need to start being hard or cheaters and giving them punishments that aren't easily taken care of especially in a tourny scene. A ban of a season for wiping sounds good but for stuff like Salm then we need to be tougher. Just my 2 cents.

[Garrum]

You may be on to something Dryden. If there were no prizes and no money up for grabs, the incentive to cheat would be diminished, at least some. Have the products up for a raffle type contest, separate from the game. And just don't award money as a prize. Then the only thing at stake is your honor, and to be able to say that you won that one. More people will sell their honor for a $20000 check, than will for a Halo B, or an E-blade cocker.

And as far as trying to use the expense their $2500 gun and other gear to justify their cheating, that may be part of it as well. It seems that as the price of the gun goes up, the level of vanity increases exponentially. Sort of a "I paid X dollars for my gun. I deserve to still be in the game." Other than crushing cheaters under our collective boot, I don't see a way to stop that.

[trains are bad]

We have the same sig. Preach it brother!

[xmetal2001]

Originally posted by kenndogg
considering ths sport is made up of mostly teenagers, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

You obviously don't play at my local fields. Here, I see quite the opposite. As a ref, I dread reffing a group of adults, because they all think they know everything. Its the teenagers who actually realize they havent done everything.

[Garrum]

I think we can agree that teenagers and young ex-teenagers, as in 20-25, generally think that they can do no wrong. I am speaking from experience here. There are exceptions of course, but generally, they are arrogant, self centered, and vindictive.

This stems from the maturity level of the player. An immature 40 year old is going to be as bad or worse than an immature 18 year old. That said, a mature 40 year old might be even more fun to be around than a mature 18 year old, due to the amount of experience, both life experience and game experience, that they will have to draw on and share with you.

[kenndogg]

Originally posted by xmetal2001


You obviously don't play at my local fields. Here, I see quite the opposite. As a ref, I dread reffing a group of adults, because they all think they know everything. Its the teenagers who actually realize they havent done everything.

nope can't say I have, the only ppl from my field that has attitudes are those within the age group of 15-19. Are all of them bad apples? Certainly not but they do make up the majority of the bad apples.

Garrum

I think we can agree that teenagers and young ex-teenagers, as in 20-25, generally think that they can do no wrong. I am speaking from experience here. There are exceptions of course, but generally, they are arrogant, self centered, and vindictive.

I agree.