I'm off to the first of the season CFOA in Easley SC

[Emily]

mrzman so sorry i forgot to mention you. You were wonderful. You were always getting them ready to go back out right after they had just finished a game. Great meeting you and I can't wait til Alanta. I hope phil bring the paintball camper. I'll be taking a nap at 5:30 am...lol

[Emily]

Some pics of the day at http://www.xtremesportsfulfillment.c...ie_photos.html

[GA Devil]

Great showing guys. Was nice seeing you again. Look forward to seeing you all at Ultimate in a month.

[cphilip]

Um... this is something I was talking about...

These guys look like Rookie to you?

http://www.xtremesportsfulfillment.com/cfoa_event_news/feb_rookie/pages/R2.html

And this aint the only ones I seen there looked to me...

[GA Devil]

Yeah i know those guys from other tournies. They played under the name "Violators" last summer at a tourney at ultimate and they play in MSPA under another name i was told.

[cphilip]

So are they just afraid to play anyone but newbs? Seems like I heard they been almost the same team for like three or four years! Someone needs to get these Sandbaggers on to another level and see if they can quit being lame. I saw them across from me all day long. I mean we talking proffessional trailer and multiple gun stands with at least two top markers a peice lined up... all the signs of people playing out of their position. Now I realize some teams have a couple levels but this one and at least one other of the top four finishers KNOW they are not Rookie. And just adding one new member here and there does not do it. If you look close you have to notice that almost all the top places were indeed playing sandbaggers. This is an issue in every tournament series I ever saw. And its not any different here in CFOA I am afraid to say....

[Emily]

What can be done about it? The CFOA don't check these kinds of thing? Don't you just put yourself in a division and go with it?

[GA Devil]

its a part of paintball that will always happen. Theres just about no way to background check all the teams that enter a tourney. Look at this cfoa. 120 somethign teams 5-7 players per team to have to try to check. Its just impossible. Its sad that there has to be sandbaggers but there is. Only thing to do is practice practice practice to be better then them and do the right thing and move up when its your time.

[Jonesie]

#1 - Is any team who wins a tournament/division other than Open or ProAm a sandbagger? It seems like everytime I hear of a team winning something, the word sandbagger is never far behind...

#2 - I've played with these guys several times. The old guy shoots (or used to shoot) a Warped Angel. They weren't great when we played them, but they did know what they were doing. I'll give you these guys as sandbaggers, but perhaps we should be a bit more careful when throwing the term around?

EDIT: Additionally, the PSP seems to have the anti-sandbagging fixed (maybe). By issuing ID cards, and enforcing experience placement, they seem to be on the right track. I know several Div3 X-Ball teams that got bumped to Div2 because of the players. I know CFOA is NPPL sanctioned, so maybe they could implement the APPA IDs.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Jonesie
#1 - Is any team who wins a tournament/division other than Open or ProAm a sandbagger? It seems like everytime I hear of a team winning something, the word sandbagger is never far behind...

#2 - I've played with these guys several times. The old guy shoots (or used to shoot) a Warped Angel. They weren't great when we played them, but they did know what they were doing. I'll give you these guys as sandbaggers, but perhaps we should be a bit more careful when throwing the term around?

EDIT: Additionally, the PSP seems to have the anti-sandbagging fixed (maybe). By issuing ID cards, and enforcing experience placement, they seem to be on the right track. I know several Div3 X-Ball teams that got bumped to Div2 because of the players. I know CFOA is NPPL sanctioned, so maybe they could implement the APPA IDs.

Uh no... is every kid named Jonesie a know it all smart alec who calls any disagreement whinning? Sounds like your whining more then me!


Looky here....When its obvious its time for someone to state the obvious. Plain simple truth this is a prime example of a problem. Win or lose I didn't even know they did till today. But I did see them across from me and it was obvious they should not have been playing on Saturday. Stating the obvious is not haphazardly throwing a term arround as you seem to imply. I not throwing it around. I flat out accusing them of it because its been confirmed! And in your number two you proved it again to me. The CFOA knows these guys pretty well. Its time when its VERY obvious that someone pull them aside and ask them to move up. I point them out because EVERYONE at the event knew who they were and knew they always played Rookie and have been so for YEARS! Now thats not Rookie is it? Sorry but there is a time and place to call a kettel black. And dis is one a dem!

We didn't play them. They were not in our bracket so to tell you the truth I wish we had! Heck yea. We played some younger teams that I know played together all last year. So technically they are not rookie but have no problem with that if its borderline. Heck we beat one of them!

But these guys here are simply SOOOOOO far off its not even funny anymore. I could care less what they play. But 62 other teams kids moms and dads that forked up a lot of money might. I should think they should be embarassed to try and claim Rookie at this point themselves! The argument that you should suck it up and play whomever shows up goes equally for them. Avoiding moving up just so you can win in a bracket thats below your level is equaly cowardly and rediculous. And its one of the things wrong with Tournament paintball today. So if you logic is well so be it them it means you give up fixing Paintball and leave it to the lairs and cheaters. Well this is why I hate Tournament Paintball so much. Everyone just shrugs and gives up. No ones got the balls to fix it.

[Jonesie]

No no, again you misunderstand me. I agree with you, these guys are 'baggers, NO DOUBT.

I was speaking (or typing) in more general terms about throwing around the term 'sandbaggers'. Until teams are playing Open/ProAm, there will always be descenters saying that Team ABC should be playing up, or Team XYZ is sandbagging. This can't be said in an Open Division.

Now, yes, this team "Last Call" formerly Violators I believe, is a bunch of sandbaggers. I have personally seen them play before, and they're talent and experience (in terms of time played, NOT skill) is far beyond the rookie level.

Sorry for the confusion.

EDIT: And Unka Phil, I'm not WHINING... I'm NOT! I'M NOT!

Dave

[cphilip]

LOL Got ya Dave.

Yea I hear everyone use the excuse soemtimes too much. But we both agree that there are "professional sandbaggers" out there. Which probably gives kids a leg up to exagerate about it. I really don't care if two teams that break up and reform and never played as a team want to go a season of Rookie to get together. Some would still call that Sandbagging. But I figure if the team is pretty much a large percentage new to each other then its fine. And I got no problem at all with one really good older pro guy taking four young kids out and teaching them as a team mate in Rookie. That I think is perfectly good thing to do. But this group here has changed very little. Maybe a man here and a man there. Most times not in this case! And there are a few others like this too. There is a local group of older teens been together like three years I saw out there too in Rookie. All late Teens. Its time to move up kids.

[Emily]

So what can be done about this? Is there any way we can do something about this team or any other team that should move up?

Phil I get where you're coming from where people don't say anything about it they just shrug their shoulders and say that's paintball.

It is so unfair to all the people playing in the tournement and any other one for that matter to have others "holding" them back becasue they are too scared of losing to move up.

[Enigma4you]

Im home Im home ya home im home

Its like this, I dont care who we play, If Bob long Mr. Ore, Jesus and his two favorite paintballers show up across the field from me I will play them. They can cheat sandbag whatever and I dont care. I know that I am out there to play to the best of my ability, as long as I do that and dont cheat dont sandbag and treat the other players as well as the sport with honor and respect I will have won, no matter what the score sheet says.

As a team we will get stronger by playing together, as a team we will get better by not winning but loosing to teams that are better than us. Look at what we did on saturday, we beat a team that was better, why? because we found within ourselves and as team team what it took to do that. So bring them on, they are doing us a favor by playing us, not the other way around.............

On another note,
For the past several months I have taken a lot of good natured crap from guys at my store about shooting a mag, We finished 137 points over one of the guys that talked so much craps team. I thought to myself I have well deserved bragging rights but instead my store owner posted in the front window the total sheet from CFOA, he hilighted Our team and put my name beside it and wrote With a MAG beside it. He hilighted the other guys team and just put his name. I love it...

[cris8762]

Hey guys

I was there too!!! Phil, i saw you once, but was running on my way to get to a game, so i couldnt stop and chat. I played with team Aftermath (no, not SC Aftermath the kids with tippys, who were complete stunnas )

We were wearing the black and blue Blackstar jerseys.

CFOA was all around fun, even though i saw some teams that were sandbagging, and i have o say that the reffing on the X Ball field was some of the worst reffing i've ever seen/experienced in my entire life!!!!!!!!

I wont even get into the details of people getting stalemates after they win games, or people getting called out after being called clean, or being allowed to play on with VERY obvious hits when a ref was sitting right on them!

Being screwed out of at least 2 wins has made me very skeptical of the CFOA. I know i'm playing all the events, but if the reffing continues to be of the same calibur that i saw on Saturday, then i'm going to definetly raise some hell!!!

All in all though, it was a fun tournament. Notable moments:

Rolling toxic kids first game only to get a FREAKIN stalemate.

Watching Tyler Humphrey of Trauma shoot out 2 XSF players, pull the flag, sign it with a Sharpie and try to hand it to the XSF guys!!!!

Last game, having one guy do a run thru and just ripping up everyone that moved down on the other end!!

Getting freakin blasted by 12 year olds with Alias timmys and renegade jerseys!! (Ultimate Kids, went into semifinals in 1st place)

Looking at Amanda the Draxxus girl all day long!!!!!!

Having airsoft wars in the hotel till about 1 AM sat. night!!!

Watching teams like Mantis and Machine just roll people!