My cock-er roomate...

[Butterfingers]

My roomate still thinks that guns differ in range when shooting at the same velocity. After 2 hours of arguement he still is stubborn.

I have challanged him that both our paintguns set at the same angle and same velocity using the same paint will shoot the same distance. I bet him 5-1 odds that I am right. He will only have to pay $20 if he wins whereas I will pay $100 if he is right. I am confident.

I am giving him until high noon tommorrow to withdraw his bet... I am a nice guy so I figured I would find some information for him to look at.

Do you guys know any relaible physics related paintball sources. I have shown him 2 sites already, he still does not belive it. He still thinks his cocker can outdistance most guns. The worst thing is that he works for cousins paintball/ advantage paintball on long island and all the employees there seems to have the same idea as him.

Yep, you guessed it my worst nightmare, the employees of the largest paintball chain in New York dosent know what they are talking about.

He dismisses the articles as non-credible. So post you're arguement here or share with me outside information. Help me dispell the myth once and for all.

[AGD]

Well now you know how I feel.

I have an idea!! ASK THE ELVES!!

AGD

[joeyjoe367]

Well, It seems that no matter what you're going to tell this guy, he's not going to belive it.

Just beat him in the bet.

Oh, I just remembered. PBstar did a thing about distance. Check out the website, something should be there.

[deded]

Make sure its the same paint to barrel match, too. And show him a physics book.

I hope that he isn't your roommate in college, majoring in physics.

Everything falls at the same speed (vertically), no matter how fast it is flying (horizontally). So if you shoot it from the same height, at the same angle, no matter how fast it is shooting, it will hit the ground at the same time. (unless it has some kind of spin)

So if they will hit the ground at the same time, and they are going the same speed, they should go the same distance.

Its late, so this probably doesn't sound too coherent, but just take a look at any physics book printed after Galileo's time, it will tell you this.

[zads27]

Hm.. can I get in on that bet??

[AGD]

Make sure he says how many feet different one gun will shoot over the other. I have done this same demo and when the difference is one foot the guy jumps up and down.

AGD

[Butterfingers]

I actually showed him my physics book, he seems to dismiss it as irrelevant to paintball.

He actually might go into marketing as a major, hey I guess you have to belive it to sell it... smart parts fodder...

I showed him the PBstar article, he dosent belive it.

He seems to be locked on the idea that a paintball accelerates after it leaves the barrel due to turbulance. Autococker elves I guess.

We are going to chrono the guns using a radarchrono to make sure the average of 20 shots is ~250fps.

We are going to use diffrent color paints of the same brand and fire it down a 500 foot driveway on his property in upstate NY. We will fire 50 shots each and walk down the driveway and see where the clusters form.

I need round high quality medium bore (.689) paint. I will only need a case so price is no object. I want the roundest most consistent paintballs possible.

The guns will be bench rested at the same angle.

I will most likely be using an E-mag. He will be using his choice of his autococker or his palmer stroker (which he belives can outrange anything in existance).

I don't like loosing money... especially 100 beans so is there any way to make the gun shoot-up during my "cluster shooting." (Just a little extra margin of comfort LOL) What should I set my e-mag input pressure to. Any tips.

Tom, I would like to know what variables you used to conduct this test.

Any additional tips will be appreciated.

Ill post pictures, and a full review sometime in the next 2 weeks.

[headcase]

Thats easy....when you chrony your E-mag do it like you would any other marker. Ignore the instructions AGD gives you. You know the part where you hold back the trigger, release, then fire again quickly. Just do it like any other marker, just pull and release. Then when you do the "test" rapid fire the balls. If I understand this correctly, you velocity should increase.

As usual someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Like AGD said make sure that you have an set number of feet that actually wins/loses the bet. Like if his balls are an average of 10 feet further away he wins.

Later
SSDD

[Vegeta]

I say he should have to pay 100 too.. for being so damn stubborn.

There might be a problem with consistency. If he is running on Co2, and you on nitro.. well, your ok, but his gun might start shooting upwards of the tested chrony, depending on what kinda reg he has. (if he has one). So a good bet would be to go out and get a VLocity thingy that goes on the barrel.. for each gun, and that way you can check to make sure that one shot doesn't go further becuase a spike. I know these kinda people.. and if he gets one shot a few feet further he'll say he told ya so.

Paint to bore match is extremely important, of course. Also, the type of barller might matter (honing, polish-iness, etc.)

If you wanna get fany go out and buy a micro-meter thingy (caliper-like ruler) and measure your paintballs to make sure one of you dont get a ball with a bump.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

different barrels make a ll the difference. if he has better paint/barrel match, he will shoot farther, so try and the get the same barrels on both guns. just a suggestion. if he doesn't know this, get him to use a large bore barrel while you use a small bore barrel with small bore paint. this way yours will shoot farther. haha.

[Russ]

Sounds just like the PB store nearest me. The head tech perpetuates the "long range 'Cocker" theory. Many of the sheep go along with it. Ignorance is difficult to deal with, because most people are unwilling to open their minds and accept truth over myths. Because of paintball, I can understand how hard it must've been to try and convince people that the world was round!

Do the test well. You really need to have the same length, bore diameter, and brand of barrel on both guns. You have to shoot the same paint as well. A chronogragh is also nessesary. Even if you prove it, I bet he still won't accept it!

[845]

Cousin's Mt. Kisco believes in the same elvish theory of the autococker being a range god. I would also make a bet with him that a tippmann flatline can out shoot his stroker. Bet even more cause that is a bet he cant win. Definately.

[AGD]

Butter,

I have been down this road before and I have to warn you this is a no win situation. Even if they come out the same he is going to claim his shots were more accurate and therefore "had better range". The final answer will always be subjective in his mind. This is a religion and you are trying to kill his god.

If you want a no fail test you have to do it this way. Start with a table you can hand hold but bench rest the guns on. 75 feet down range hang a board from a tree so the bottom edge is horizontal and maybe 6-7 feet above the ground. 50-75 feet beyond that prop up another board on the ground as a target.

The idea is that you rest the gun on the table, shoot as close as you can under the first board and hit as high as possible on the last board. If one gun has more range or a flatter trajectory it will hit higher on the last board. You might have to adjust the board spacing.

The last, most important part, is to shoot every shot over a chrono. A difference of 10 fps can change where the shots land. The proof is that no shots above x fps hit higher than x on the board. The way I set this up no shots below 280 even hit the board no matter what gun or barrel you use.

Point out before the test that longer range at the same velocity means flatter trajectory so the middle board should help his case.

I can't stress enough that you have to cover all the weasel points before the test. Even then I don't think he is going to pay.

AGD

[salomon16]

when are you doing this experiment??

Yes, I too used to be mistaken about shockers and their "range" mainly because everyone who has one claims it has better range, and I had never shot one. But, I had shot a cocker and that was no different so...i guess i never thought twice about it. Good luck man, BTW when are we gonna see some results???

[gmag]

Hey Butterfingers, where in Ny are you doing this? I live in upstate Ny and I would like to come and watch. I doubt you're going to sway his stubborn opinions, but its worth a shot anyway.