Timeline for AGD's New Idea?

[Branchvillian]

Originally posted by WARPED1
I am the one who gave Feb 30 2050 mo!(not you Sam)
I defy you to find a Feb 30 on anycalender..........
ain't sarcasm great?
AGD won't go out of business, it will just fade into obscurity like Palmer(both still make awesome stuff, just not in the forfront of business').

With this new gun in 05...I think you are 100% wrong. I think this new gun is going to put agd back up top where they should be now! Agd gets absolutley no credit, at all.

[lamby]

lets use past precident as a guide...

1) Marker will be hyped in "beta" format in 2005. There will be 1 trillion posts and pictures of the 10 guns that were made. All posts are the same.. sweet, best ever, drool.. etc.

2) One month later a "bug" will be discovered and the new marker will be recalled. Production schedule is delayed (4.0)

3) marker is released in second beta version in 2006. Again the posting starts. Talks about pre orders abound and how everyone in AO will order one, but that turns out to be a lie.(z-frame)

4) marker goes into production and people to start to order said new gun. Back logs of people on the waiting list. People are happy to brag about thier spot on the back order list.(x-mag)

5) A part supplier goes bankrupt and stops selling a needed part. production halts for a half year until a new supplier can be found (4500 reg seats)

6) AGD says that they are sorry but it was out of thier control, and blames paintballs "hype" over fact as to why it did not sell.

7) I am shooting the latest greatest marker that there is availible and it wont be AGD based.

No attack meant, but this is the facts of AGDs production mentality. I have been here for two years and I have seen it over and over again.

Peace out.

[riooso]

Hey Lamby that was harsh. This is not a flame! All I know is that I have a X-Mag and have used it for over a year and never had to use my backup gun. I have put well over 150,000 balls through it and it is still going strong. My Mag is the most realible marker that I have seen and I have seen most of what is out there and I admire the unbelievable realibility of it. I am personally uncomfortable with the changes that AGD is going through.

Have a good one,
R

[AGD]

Ok here is my comeback to that, all this is factual but the names have been changed to avoid lawsuits.

1) Popular tournament marker body has feed tube threads going too far into the body and jamming the bolt. The manufacturer decides to back out the feed neck and locktight it in place and send them out the door. A major distributor catches it and forces the manufacturer to take back over 500 guns with threats of exposing the defect. The manufacturer takes them back and sells them to someone else.

(2) A different manufacturer orders 5000 electronic boards to get the price down. They ground out because of bad design and they add an oring and don't tighten the screws to fix it. Out the door they go.

(3) Yet a different manufacturer decides to change the type of plastic used on a particular part against the recomendation of the designer. The part comes out oversize because of different shrink rate and cracks its housing if you take it apart. Instead of scrapping the cheap plastic part they put a tag on the product "do not dissasemble".

(4) Then there is the old one you all know about already, Brass Eagle decides to save 50 cents on plastic and change to another material. All the loader bodies cracked when hit with paint.

(5) Then my favorite is the other manufacturer who just recently told me "we try and start with zero cost and put just enough into it to get it to work"

If your impatient and a lousy judge of quality, then there are a lot of products out there that will really look good compared to ours. If your happy with what you have and only keep it a few months paintball is just a big candy store. Our products are like a woman, most are good enough for one night, only one is good enough for a lifetime.

AGD

[frenchman309]

very well put Mr. Kaye

[riooso]

Thanks Tom. There are a lot of us that are pushing an awfully big rock up a very steep hill! I hope this all comes out.

thanks
R

[lamby]

Tom and the rest of AO,

First I would like to say that there are aspects of your product line that I like alot, others are ok, and some are just plain bad.

If you want to toss the word "quality" around as much as you do I think that you need to make a quality product first. There are major problems with the lowers (trigger frames) of the e/x mags that made the rest of the gun, no matter how strong and durable that it is, week in the eyes of players that want to cough up the grand that the emags costed when they first came out (when I bought mine).

I have a couple of issues that I, and others in AO, have addressed over the years about this marker and comments that you made here to explain and/or defend yourself.

1) Poor water proofing of the electronics. A problem that caused two shorted emags in Chicago at the PSP event when it rained. One was even siliconed before it was forced apart to make a chrono ref happy (addressed in another comment)

Originally posted by AGD
We looked into water proofing the boards but the stuff was carcinogenic and needed special handling proceedures. Easiest fix is to cut out a piece of heavy plastic bag and tuck in in there around the board. If the paint splashes in there it will not get to the components. Its not like you are putting the thing under water, you just need spray protection.

AGD

Does this sound like a "quality" answer? It sounds cheap to me. Angels of the time had a sealed board to prevent moisture from killing it, that and there is no opening to the board because of the good fit and finish of the angels. (again, addressed lower down)

2) Known trigger "bounce" issue and shootup causing a catch 22 for chrono refs and players.

Originally posted by AGD
Bouncers,

Please do not worry at all about this. We can eliminate the bounce simply by going back to the standard on/off pin that is the same size all the way down. You still get the fast recharge but no bounce. Don't sweat it we are on it.

AGD

This post was from 3-2-03. The issue was NEVER fixed. I was told by Tom in person at an AO event that the, what is now known as, ULT kit was the repair for this problem. This was before we almost had 3 Es pulled at a tourney for having the trigger rods removed to eliminate this bounce (cant measure shoot-up..). Problem is that it will not work with the Es. Is this the "quality" of which you speak?

3) Poor fit of grip panels to frame. Caused by a HUGH soleniod. Aiding to the water issue.

Originally posted by AGD

5. more contoured and comfy Emag grips
**talking to DYE, 50/50 this year, 90% for 2003

This also never happened. Look at all other markers in this price range and find one that has the cheezy seal that the E/Xs have around the brains of the marker. You won't.. Hell even e-spyders have a better fit and finish than the emags.

4) Lack of user adjusable perameters for the firing sequence of the marker. This really bothered me when I knew the marker, and I, could shoot better than 16BPS. I was able to do it with my angel when I got it with no problems. (I had 1.37 code at the time.. 3.2 code is better, but it is still no e-cocker, IR4, DM4, viking, or timmy in the CPS department). I think that something that was "quality" should be able to do what everyone else can do, but do it better.

5) Lack of different trigger styles to suit the players preferances. (ie blade triggers)

Originally posted by AGD
Can't do a blade because the sensor magnet is in the middle of the trigger. Triggernomics may be able to do something custom but I don't know for sure.

AGD

If Timmy and RRfireblade can do it, then it could be done. The fact that you did not WANT to do it is another thing all together. "Quality" would dictate that you have the best everything. Your hump style trigger IMO is crap. I replaced mine in one week. Also the adjustability of the trigger is less than good, but again, I had a TL63 that was a QUALITY product, that was far better than stock. Again, IMO.

There are others, but this already really long.

If "quality" is what you want, atleast get the same "quality" as other companys. I dont need a gun to last 100 years witout maintenance. I need a gun that I can maintain as needed and when maintained properly will do what I need it to do. Your Electronic line was not capable of that. Your trigger frames were in my eyes the lowest "quality" that you can get in a 700 plus marker.

I will keep playing and using what I need to play. right now I am perfectly content with my e-class, and I am buying another as a BU marker. If something drasticly better shows up I will buy one of them, but not until someone I know has one and I get to play with it and take it apart to see what it is like. The e-mag was a sugestion that was made by one of your old sponsored players (he did his job.. he sold a marker), It works fine in the woods, or at local tourneys, on a nice sunny day, but that is as far as I would take it.

If you real this all, I am impressed. My attention span is not normally this long.

[Beemer]

Bla Bla Bla

I am shooting the latest greatest marker that there is availible and it wont be AGD based.

Ha ha it wouldnt be the latest and greatest then now would it.

I have a X-Mag and have used it for over a year and never had to use my backup gun. I have put well over 150,000 balls through it and it is still going strong. My Mag is the most realible marker that I have seen and I have seen most of what is out there and I admire the unbelievable realibility of it.

I will keep playing and using what I need to play. right now I am perfectly content with my e-class, and I am buying another as a BU marker.

Uhh gee if its the latest and greatest why do you need a back up? I Demo out my back up Mag to my Mag cause I never need it

You can please some of the people some of the time.
You cant please all the people all the time
Some people you can never please[Lamby]

If you dont like the sandbox or the toys that are in it to play with, whats your point here Lamby? You can bring your own toys and still play though its cool.

You must be DBs and Warped1 lost brother
I think you guys must have been separated at birth.

Oh ya have fun with your 1 nite stand markers

[Chris42050]

Wow lamby, one has to wonder if you have a life to keep all those quotes for when you go on one of your rants. Someone is not happy with AGD. What are you doin here if you hate them so much. Im not lookin for a fight so dont start flamin me or whatever. I know better than to start a fight with someone who has too much time on thier hands.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Lamby- Some of your issues are easily explained. Such as the dye grip issue. He even said 50/50 chance, so dont try to use that. As for TK's idea for sealing your board, it would take them a while to design a new seal for the board and all. So he probably ment in the mean time use a bag or something. If an orracle is of a higher quality than why do you need a back up? There is no need for a back up wih an E/Xmag. Understand that a company cant just come out with a product in one week. Give them time. They may not find something to be financially worth it. As for the bounce issue, maybe they found that wouldnt work, so they didnt tell us. Think about this kind of stuff before you post.

[Dubstar112]

Is AO "belittling" Tom?

I think we need to take a deep breath. I think you can see where AGD has been influenced by AO and where it hasn't had any influence(+/-). I think its evident in some areas(LX vs Superbolt, Current Emag situation etc. . .)

There is some situations where I would think Tom, as the owner of AGD would want to make the decision for somthing by himself. We all have opinions on everything. Thats natural, but trying to put our influence on a major company in my opinion is destroying it's integrity.(if not atleast somtimes insulting)

I agree with every decision that tom has ever made, for the simple fact that he is the owner, trying to please. That in itself is an accomplishment.

"Give many voice but few thy toungue" along them lines.

Even more simply put, I care about what happens to AGD, but I am able to realize that I have little or no say in what happens.

[dmocratic]

Originally posted by WenULiVeUdiE
If an orracle is of a higher quality than why do you need a back up? [...] Think about this kind of stuff before you post.

Oh, please: anyone investing the time and money to go to
a distant event or major tourney would be an IDIOT to not
have a backup marker. Even if the primary marker was made
by the gods and perfect in every way, it can still get lost,
stolen or run over by a bulldozer, and without a backup
marker, where are you ?

Sitting around with no way to play, and a lot of time
and money lost forever.

Take your own advice: think a bit before you post.

[Eric Cartman]

Thread hijack!

Dennis M. O'Connor

Weird man. I graduated from Denis O'Connor high school!

Yes I've been drinking. It's St Patty's day after all.

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by AGD


If your impatient and a lousy judge of quality, then there are a lot of products out there that will really look good compared to ours. If your happy with what you have and only keep it a few months paintball is just a big candy store. Our products are like a woman, most are good enough for one night, only one is good enough for a lifetime.

AGD

I'm a lousy judge of qualility... thats why I nominate and trust you to do it for me :)

As for the woman comment... my e-mag and RT mag get along better than my ex and whatever girlfriend I have... think they'll be ok when I pick up another one to add to the fun :) (and I mean the E and RT)

[lamby]

Originally posted by WenULiVeUdiE
If an orracle is of a higher quality than why do you need a back up? There is no need for a back up wih an E/Xmag..... Think about this kind of stuff before you post.

Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how much money is involved to play in a major event? Add Airfre, Hotel, Registration, paint, and misc stuff like food and beer for 8 people, and you will see that another $1000-1500 for a safety factor is a cheap investment over the period of a year. I HAD to use the backups in Chicago because the EMAGS failed. One backup was am LCD angel and the other backup was a timmy. PUHHHLLEAAASE tell me you are a rec baller because you sure sound like one.

Originally posted by dmocratic


Oh, please: anyone investing the time and money to go to
a distant event or major tourney would be an IDIOT to not
have a backup marker. Even if the primary marker was made
by the gods and perfect in every way, it can still get lost,
stolen or run over by a bulldozer, and without a backup
marker, where are you ?

Sitting around with no way to play, and a lot of time
and money lost forever.

Take your own advice: think a bit before you post.

Well said dmocratic!!!

I am not saying that everyone needs a backup marker, but we have 5 on the team total (roster of ten) and 3 spare tanks. I perfer to have a backup that is setup the same as the main incase the main fails (for what ever reason).

Originally posted by Chris42050
Wow lamby, one has to wonder if you have a life to keep all those quotes for when you go on one of your rants.

Search button works every time... I remember the threads and seached for the aspect I was looking for and found the quote I wanted. Not to much time required, and I did not "keep all those quotes", They are on AO in public view.

Originally posted by AGD
Our products are like a woman, most are good enough for one night, only one is good enough for a lifetime.

AGD

There is no corolation between the emotional tie between a man and woman and paintball. This comment in my eyes is, deragatory and way off base.

Originally posted by Beemer
Ha ha it wouldnt be the latest and greatest then now would it.

I have had many things in my life that were the "best and state of the art" mostly electronics and sporting goods.

I buy a new softball bat every year or two.. Why? new technoligy mostly, and mine old one is outside of its expected life span (worn out, out of warrenty, dented ect). To use your mentality on loyality.. I would only use TPS bats for 4 years (much like the mag people). I loved my silver, and my gold. I bought TPSs newest bat, the "spring steel" that bat SUCKED!! I was forced to try another bat, a "demarini Ultimate Distance"(the e-class in my eyes). This was the best bat ever!!! I fell in love and my beloved TPS gold sat in the garage. I have been a Demarini fan since (but I have not played in 2 years so I dont know what the latest technoligy is).

There is an apples to oranges thing going on here..

I EXPECT a piece of sporting equipment to ware out, or become obsolite. Technoligy does that to things... I only care when I demand the upper edge of performance.. (IE softball and paintball).

I have nice firearms too, but I cant shoot more accurately than my rifle can deliver so I do not need a new one until I am better than my rifle.(I have a friend like this that shoots match and has $6k in a custom rifle) If my rifle wears out (worn rifleing, for an example) I will buy a new one prob the best that I can justify for my ability (about 3" group at 100 yards prone).

I play golf... I suck really really bad, there fore my $200 set is fine for me. Sure I can spend 2 or 3 grand on clubs, but to what gain? to shave 3 strokes on my 100+ round? There is no point.

The reason for the long "rant" is because I am sick of the herd mentality here. I love AO, I like finding out what is going on in the sport. I help people that have problems that I can fix, and get data back that I can use myself.

I just dont beleive that if AGD makes something it is "quality". They have to to PROVE that it is quality before I buy the "AO herd hype". The E/X mags are a perfect example of how AGD does not ALWAYS make a QUALITY product. I am just stating the facts.