Why is everyone mad at Smart Parts?

[shartley]

Originally posted by edweird
nah that is BS... Smart parts chose to take legal action to set a legal precident with the shady patent they own. This action was directed at possibly the weakest of all the major manufactures. Sure AKA could of licensed the patent if Smart Parts offered it... but it would of been at a cost that AKA would of not recovered from(reputation as well as cash costs).

Originally posted by edweird
Smart parts forced a decision at the cost of pricey legal manuvering. And in my book legal strongarming is always a sign that a greater evil is at work. And if it was really that civil of a settlement as you seem to assume, why do you think Smart Parts has had a gag order put on the AKA suit.

Originally posted by edweird
Anyhow Smart parts has always played dirty pool if you asked me. After all they have yet to design anything inhouse, instead they prefer to buy out designs and then excessivly patent the design they did not even innovate in the first place.

Originally posted by edweird
Smart Parts is not going to get a dime outta me, my friends, or anyone else that I can prevent.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by shartley

Do you know this as FACT?

Do you know for a fact it is not the case?

Both of these questions are irrelevant, logically speaking. Ed deduced a strong argument. Refute it with a stronger argument, or invalidating evidence. Undeniable proof is not always present, but also isn't always necessary to figure out what is going on.

The sun does not have a chocolate center. Do I have proof? Did anyone check? No. But it is unlikely that some unknown space anamoly would allow for this to be.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Miscue
Do you know for a fact it is not the case?

Both of these questions are irrelevant, logically speaking. Ed deduced a strong argument. Refute it with a stronger argument, or invalidating evidence. Undeniable proof is not always present, but also isn't always necessary to figure out what is going on.

The sun does not have a chocolate center. Do I have proof? Did anyone check? No. But it is unlikely that some unknown space anomaly would allow for this to be.

[Beemer]

OK so its a little hard to keep up with paintball when your in Iraq, so I was wondering why is everyone pissed at Smart Parts, what did they do? Please forgive my ignorance, I think I have a good reason. Thanks guys.

I have been here long enough to have seen quite a few of these lovers/haters of sp battles and they go nowhere. You wanna pass stupid A judgements on people. Go ahead be ignorant.

This didnt start as a battle, he just wanted some info on the deal. Read it again. First Im cool then Im ignorant. You MISSED my whole point. I will not name call but will say you show no respect or class.

Thanks again Giltner for what you do.

Peace out

[Miscue]

Originally posted by shartley

My point is that he is not saying the sun has a chocolate center, he is making statements about a company that may not be true. It is not up to ME to prove that he is wrong when making such statements, it is up to HIM (and others) to prove they are correct.

What approach do you suggest for proving what motives someone has for acting a certain way? Provide a method for us, such that if we follow it exactly - satisfactory proof could be provided that substantiates Ed's claims. If you cannot explain a method to do this, then you cannot have the expectation of a provision of "proof." Possibly no such method exists, and we are reduced to using induction and deduction when possible. Enlighten us.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Miscue


What approach do you suggest for proving what motives someone has for acting a certain way? Provide a method for us, such that if we follow it exactly - satisfactory proof could be provided that substantiates Ed's claims. If you cannot explain a method to do this, then you cannot have the expectation of a provision of "proof." Possibly no such method exists, and we are reduced to using induction. Enlighten us.

[Chris42050]

And so it begins the Ole SP battle. This is what I was talkin about Beemer. Man I H8 bein right. His question was answered but mine was not beemer. This thread went where they all go straight to nowhere (with exception from DogBoy). I could see it a mile away. Im not tryin to flame anyone here for there posts. Just sayin they go nowhere.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by shartley

http://skepdic.com/ignorance.html

First of all, it's obvious that it his opinion! You do not have to qualify everything as opinion, when people are reasonable enough to recognize it as so. It is understood, without putting out roadsigns.

What he said may not be true - I agree!. But, it makes a lot of sense and I think is likely.**





** = this is my opinion, and I am not endorsing it as fact.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Miscue

http://skepdic.com/ignorance.html

First of all, it's obvious that it his opinion! You do not have to qualify everything as opinion, when people are reasonable enough to recognize it as so. It is understood, without putting out roadsigns.

What he said may not be true - I agree!. But, it makes a lot of sense and I think is likely.**





** = this is my opinion, and I am not endorsing it as fact.

[edweird]

Wow thanks Miscue for taking up the banner while I was bodging up the 23 year old civics we call F-16's into flying condition under the hammer of manditory 12 hour shifts.

So facts is what ya want... well so did I.

But unfortunatly AKA is unable to talk about the particulars of the smart parts suit. Many of us have asked and no I dont keep the friggin emails cause knowing is enough for me.

I respect AKA for not selling out like Eclipse did today... but then again eclipse has always made impy frames and of course Smart Parts is not going to rape people (as badly) that make aftermarket parts for markers they own the rights to. (note I did not say "create") Common logic would tell you that a company such as Smart parts would offer a much higher settlement bill to a company that is not affiliated with producing parts for any of smart parts products.

Im sorry sam, just cause other companys do it does not make it right. Also when it comes to "Business Ethics" I will take my lessons from someone else, thank you very much. And its true that I dont buy much of anything... without looking into what my options are. I would also hope that this is true of how others do business. Oh and since we are at it lets not condone the actions of Smart Parts just cause other companys are done the same or /gasp worse...

So now ive given something for the infamous Sam Hartley to spend all day making point by point itemize and formulate a bulleted list of failed counter arguments to; I can get my eroding 8 hours of crew rest in before my next 12 hour try at making 23 year old F-16's fly, fight and win.

"The beatings will continue until morale imporves"
Ed Ostling

[Beemer]

This is what I was talkin about Beemer. Man I H8 bein right. His question was answered but mine was not beemer.

Ya Miscue and Shartly did a little hijack on rules of debate or fact and opinion, at least its constructive convo. Hopefully Giltner will have a chance to check out the links or at least get a grin reading the thread and post again.

Your answer is in the thread. A question was asked I posted an answer, and support for our troops.

If you need more info ask away Ill get it for ya or another Ao'er will.

Lo and behold another link, questioned answered

DogBoy: http://www.icedillusions.com/Anti-SP.html

All the other posts have input but this

ummm do a search man. no flaming intended but yeah alot of people will get mad at u probably if u dont start using the search button.

Ya like he has time to do a search in Iraq. This is AO, ask questions and we get you answers.

Edweird.... dont worry I pay a part of your wages and Im putting in for a raise for all our Armed Forces.[expect delays though] in the mean time use the force and your magic and make em fly

[shartley]

Originally posted by edweird
So facts is what ya want... well so did I.

But unfortunatly AKA is unable to talk about the particulars of the smart parts suit. Many of us have asked and no I dont keep the friggin emails cause knowing is enough for me.

So, AKA sent you e-mails about this issue even with a gag order (which applies to both sides in the case)? Or maybe I am misunderstanding what you are posting?

Originally posted by edweird
I respect AKA for not selling out like Eclipse did today... but then again eclipse has always made impy frames and of course Smart Parts is not going to rape people (as badly) that make aftermarket parts for markers they own the rights to. (note I did not say "create") Common logic would tell you that a company such as Smart parts would offer a much higher settlement bill to a company that is not affiliated with producing parts for any of smart parts products.

Originally posted by edweird
Im sorry sam, just cause other companys do it does not make it right. Also when it comes to "Business Ethics" I will take my lessons from someone else, thank you very much. And its true that I dont buy much of anything... without looking into what my options are. I would also hope that this is true of how others do business. Oh and since we are at it lets not condone the actions of Smart Parts just cause other companys are done the same or /gasp worse...

Originally posted by edweird
So now ive given something for the infamous Sam Hartley to spend all day making point by point itemize and formulate a bulleted list of failed counter arguments to; I can get my eroding 8 hours of crew rest in before my next 12 hour try at making 23 year old F-16's fly, fight and win.

"The beatings will continue until morale imporves"
Ed Ostling

[shartley]

Also when it comes to "Business Ethics" I will take my lessons from someone else, thank you very much.

Did that apply to ME or to SP?

[Ydna]

Yes it is very true that SP only wanted royalities in the first place. Some things happened, then in the end, because AKALMP refused to be a licensee, the Viking and Excal paid the price.

However I seriously stress the point that it is the Viking and the Excalibur that went down. Nothing stops them from producing another electropneumatic marker, except being sued again. In this case, they could either accept the license and make everyone happy or they could get around the patent. Or they could sell them outside of the US (for the time being).

However don't forget about the LMP half of AKALMP. This is not a small company we're talking about. People are completely misrepresenting it when they refeer to it as a "ma and pop" company. Everybody is poorer then SP.

[DeeEight]

Originally posted by deathstalker

I disagree with this as well. AKA could have licensed the right to use the technology patented by SP. Other companies did this, but AKA CHOSE not to do so. SP did not make them do anything.

well only NPS has actually said they're licensing it, and NPS is also the largest SP distributor in america, so I doubt if they're paying ANYTHING for the license. SP isn't about to annoy the biggest buyer/distributor of their gear.