reloading FUD

[GoatBoy]

Ever get into a paintball discussion, and someone breaks out with:

[anonymous] well then
[anonymous] being helpless while i reload
[anonymous] just what i need
[GoatBoy] you're helpless when you reload, regardless
[anonymous] haha.
[anonymous] i'm not.
[anonymous] i keep my gun upw hen i reload.
[GoatBoy] yeah and your eyes down.
[anonymous] learn to do it properly and you don't have to put your gun down
[anonymous] uh, no.
[anonymous] what the ---- do i need to look at?
[anonymous] i know where my hopper is, i know where my pods are

or how about:

[anonymous2] A) who looks at their pods when reloading
[anonymous] i can't shoot as fast or anything
[anonymous] anonymous2: THANK YOU
[anonymous2] B) who stops shootng
[anonymous] another person who knows what the ---- they're doing.
[anonymous] anonymous2: you keep your gun up and eyes where your'e shooting when you're reloading right?
[anonymous2] I reload with my gun up and the trigger rolling
[anonymous] good.
[anonymous] me too.
[anonymous] only thing is i can't walk
[anonymous2] running/shooting/sliding
[anonymous] i just use one finger to shoot to keep my gun more steady
[GoatBoy] i'd really just like to see videos of reloads
[anonymous2] your guns up and your shootng all the tme


Names have been changed to protect the guilty.

It's come up in these forums too from time to time.

Anyways, it's been sort of a pet project of mine to watch people as they reload. Well, I decided to go through whatever videos came my way just too look for reloads... and here's what I found.

Starting with the the two clips that J&C linked:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130356

(first video)

2:11 reloading with gun down, really long time (like 10 secs?)
5:56 reloading with gun down, about 8 seconds from when he reaches back; misses the guy crossing the field AND moving up in the snake in front of him

(second video)

1:34 lid open, actually doing what supposedly is prescribed. shot while reloading, drops entire pod on ground.


Then I flipped over and watched the 2004 PSP LA Open via PigTV

(Part 1)

6:00 4 second reload, gun down, not firing
6:27 in snake, gun down at least 4-5 seconds
8:20 gun down again
9:31 gun down again

(Part 2)

9:44 gun down, not firing, for about 3 seconds, pretty much didn't see the guy flanking him
10:19 looking down at hopper, gun down, about 7 seconds

(Part 3)

0:54 obviously not watching, unknown how long he was not paying attention
2:00 pulled back into snake, obviously not shooting, fiddling with hopper?
2:06 gun down, not shooting, 8 seconds, evidently can't reload with off hand?
3:09 gun's down again, not shooting; 10 seconds?!
4:52 6 seconds, not shooting
5:29 gun down, not shooting, looks like about 3 seconds
8:00 shot with pod in hand


Edit: Tonight's review is sponsored by the letters "B" and "S". Oh, and when I say "gun down", it should be obvious that the operator's not shooting, and not ready to shoot.


PigTV; Mardi Gras Open 2004

(Part 1)

3:29 turned around, reaching for pod? shot.
6:44 ohhh very sneaky, back to the camera, but we know what he was doing. head down, gun down, reloading, min 5 secs

(Part 2)

0:29 head down, eyes down, gun down, about 3-4 seconds
0:59 gun down, not shooting, camera pans off
6:30 4 seconds, head up looking, but not shooting
7:52 gun down, looks down to fill pod, 3-4 seconds of non shooting
8:11 Ronald McDonald has gun down, looks down to fill pod, 3-4 seconds again
8:50 HOLY COW! His gun's up (although i don't hear him firing); he did look down briefly to see what he was doing, and I found it very humorous that he stopped to close the lid on his pod before tossing it

Ronald McDonald wins that game!!!

(Part 3)

0:09 gun down, 4 seconds
0:22 gun down, not shooting, shot on arm
2:17 guns down, looking up but still glances down, 3 seconds, excellent hang time on pod toss
little later guy's in the x, reaches back for pod, gun's clearly down
3:01 WHOAH! ANOTHER WINNER! However, he's not firing (much?), and he does look down. also wonder why he has to switch hands to load as he's shooting out the left of his bunker, but holding the gun with his right as he reloads... loses time switching gun back to correct hand after reload.
3:43 gun down, talking to teammate, can't tell how long it takes
4:24 this guy's the reloading champion; i think it's his third reload. he's not shooting while doing it though 4-5 seconds
6:36 gun drops, looking out, at least 5 seconds
7:28 gun drops, watching his pod/hopper, 10-11 seconds
7:51 gun drops, at least 10 seconds pass before camera cuts away, and he still hasn't reloaded


Note that I didn't pick and choose the reloads... these were ALL the reloads from these two sets of videos. The only person who reloaded "correctly" so far was shot doing so.



Anybody have anything to add? Preferably "pro" stuff, since nobody is able to make an argument without "pro" backing.

[Lethargic]

I reload with my head down, gun down etc. Yeah, it's the wrong way, but taking 3 seconds to do it is (IMO) better than taking a good 10 seconds while feeling your way through it. The only guy I know who does it is one of our backs, Kenny, who manages to reload while still shooting at 10+ bps, and yelling directions all the while.

Alot of times, it's better to just get things done quickly than draw them out and risk getting shot over a longer period of time.

[Lohman446]

Reload? I was playing front with a TSA backman on my warp.. you have to reload? And yeh, I carry pods, but I found playing a touch more aggressively you generally had the other team eliminated in under 100 rounds. Of course my backplayers went through considerably more paint during that time...

[mikebridge]

shooting drill #2

[JT2002]

well, that was xball with some pro teams. they get paid to do it, so they just dump 8 pods on a back 40 like its nobodys business

[GoatBoy]

mikebridge: seen it. I've watched all the videos. Tyger's standing up, talking to a camera while doing it. He's not in the middle of a game with incoming fire, and he's not huddled behind some bunker. And is that a video glitch, or does he stutter while doing it?

A closer in-game example would be the "Last man standing" clip, where he's talking to the camera, but tilts the gun down in order to fill the hopper. He does a good job of not looking down, so if someone were to come dig him out, he'd probably be watching and could see it. But his gun's down during that time, and that's not a light gun -- I doubt he would be able to get the gun up in time in the middle of a reload to defend himself (boy hope he's not reading this right now ). I could have sworn there was another clip where he reloads, but I'm not sure where it is right now.

http://www.webdogradio.us/video/tipclip/p8.html

Point simply being, you're vulnerable when you reload. This applies to the MAJORITY of people.



Personally, I take The Lohman446 Approach (tm) and play more aggressively and usually wind up ending air/hyper ball games in under 100 rounds. Only times I come close to emptying my hopper (in air/hyper ball) are when the games degenerate into 3-on-1's. And by that time, the numbers are simply against you.

[Duck Hunt]

I always try to keep my head and gun up while reloading. I've watched alot of IDPA compeditors doing tactical reloads and such. Try reloading blindfolded and you'll get better at it.

I was playing with a bunch of guys at Boston Paintball and I was running low on paint even before the game started. I was running low before I made a run on the 50 and i dumped half a pod to fill me up and made my run and bunkered some foo at the 50. After that I started taking major fire from their back guys and I depleted my leftover balls LUCKILY my back man had moved up behind me and rolled me my dropped pod to give me enough balls to make a suicide run to bunker one of them =)

Lesson learned = never drop a pod!

Sean

[Tyger]

Originally posted by GoatBoy
1) Tyger's standing up, talking to a camera while doing it. He's not in the middle of a game with incoming fire, and he's not huddled behind some bunker. And is that a video glitch, or does he stutter while doing it?

2) A closer in-game example would be the "Last man standing" clip, where he's talking to the camera, but tilts the gun down in order to fill the hopper. He does a good job of not looking down, so if someone were to come dig him out, he'd probably be watching and could see it. But his gun's down during that time, and that's not a light gun -- I doubt he would be able to get the gun up in time in the middle of a reload to defend himself (boy hope he's not reading this right now ). I could have sworn there was another clip where he reloads, but I'm not sure where it is right now.

1) Slight stutter. Bad habit of mine, I'm REALLY trying to break it.

2) I'm a big guy, I can whip the e-mag around pretty deftly. Don't kid yourself, I'm pretty fast on the upswing. That being said, I also reload before I do things like move up or get into total defense. And I look on occasion, mostly I've got a clue what's going on where, and I know how to read the field clues as to when someone is moving on me.

Oh, and the other one where I do reload that I can think of offhand is "The Gauntlet" Shooting drill which has a reload as part of the drill.

Keep in mind that the 'dog shows are shows. NOT real game play. What I do in the show is as close to the real thing as I can get, but I'm also talking to the audience too. So it's not completely representative of what I REALLY play like. I mean, I look when I reload my Phantom SC, for cryin' out loud...

-Tyger

[OfficerGoat]

Personaly I pop a pod about 10-20 rnds before being dead empty. That way I can keep my head up while dumping and snap the gun up if necisary. But .. word to the wise... take the halfsecond to close the lid before snaping if you already dumped the pod.... heh

[RRfireblade]

I reload when ever ther is an opportunity to do so.It still can be done quickly and always with your eyes on the field but if done at the right times,it doesn't have to be under heavy pressure.

Most people that get into trouble reloading is because they wait till it's to late to load,afraid of wasting half a pod paint only to be get pinned down later and stuck low on paint.

[Lohman446]

If you are constantly reloading under pressure, you and your team need to discuss things. You should control the game enough to reload at your convenience