The downfall of paintball?

[rabidchihauhau]

IlikePB,

you think I'm talking about scenario games when I say 'woodsball'?

Sorry, no. I've been talking about tournament woodsball. Where do you think the Gardners played? Dave Youngblood? Renick Miller? Chuck Hendsch? Bob Long? some of those names must mean something to you.

They ALL started in the woods. Playing tournaments that had games the likes of which you couldn't even begin to imagine.

[vonort]

Really can't say much but AMEN RabidC.


I've been in the game since 1986. Played at the Lively tourneys. And the first 2 years of the IAO. The Lively events were excellent. The IAO on the other hand, even though the first 2 years were woods, pretty much convinced me that I didn't want to play tourney any more. The rampid cheating was enough to make you puke. And arguing with refs. I seen more than one games outcome changed because team A whined better than team B. This attitude has become even more apparent in todays tourney players. I went to the World Cup '03. (family happened to be there for vacation so I took a couple days to check out the Cup). Not only the "Pros," but Am, and novice teams, did nothing but whine and complain and argue with refs. It was sickening.

I say take the "Pro", I have a problem with the status of "Pro" if you don't notice, In this sport and play that division whith pumps. Now maybe we will see if you really do have some skills. What makes a "pro" in this sport. From what I can tell if I have the money and want to put a team together and play "Pro" division there is nothing stopping it. Unlike the Lively
Grand Invitational, which was an invitation only event. Only the best of the best played. 15 man woods tourney. Now that was paintball.

Guess I had more to say than I thought. But RabidC. I would love to take you out and buy you a beer sometime.

[ilikePB]

I'm stopping here. This is what I know: tournament paintball(as it is now) rocks. I like it. Many paintballers like it. It's still paintball(no matter what anyone says), it takes skill and it's fun. We are not going to regress back to pumps and 12 grams. Get over it. Step down from the soap box. Fast electros, CA, small speedball fields, force fed hoppers, jerseys, they are all here to stay(or get more extreme). The End.

[p8ntballin007]

......(or get more extreme).

I agree speed ball is fun and it is pretty fast paced, but I'm confused as to how paintball, which I've heard to be safer than golf or bowling, can be considered extreme.

I'm sorry but I need to agree with Rabid. I love speed ball, but I feel it is ruining our hobby. I say take one event be it PSP or NPPl doesn't matter, and have all the teams D1, D2, D3, and Pro all play with pumps. That is the only way to find out who has the skills and who just hides behind a wall of paint.

Just my one cent (to poor to have two cents, paintball prices made me tighten my budget)

Rob

[vonort]

well p8intballin007 if you can't afford paint now, the lowest it has ever been, then you might want to look at how you play. Don't say you can't afford paint. What you can't afford is your style of play. :)


And for the tourny thing. It will eventually collapse. Or be cleaned up. IF Pb makes it to TV and we see outside companies involved, ie Coke, pepsi whoever, These sponsors will not tolerate the game the way it is now. The Cheating, and disregard for officials will have to come to an end. Other wise you will never attain your precious dream of big mansions filled with hot babes. Once the cheating and the extent of it are exposed on TV cameras, then maybe we will see a change.. but I doubt it. Why because major TV won't touch the game until it cleans up. It;s a vicious circle.. and tourny players are just going to bite themseleves in the ***.. And me.. I'll still be out playing in the woods enjoying myself.

[Destructo6]

There needs to be an organizing entity that has the power to and, maybe most importantly, the will to ban and/or fine players for cheating, poor sportsmanship, etc. Until that happens, tournaments aren't going to be much more legitimate than WWF.

If there were such an entity, there's no reason why a championship couldn't exist for all sorts of paintball classes, from pumps in the woods to unlimited speedball.

[127.0.0.1]

Get over it. Arguing one is better won't make a difference.
It's like that where I was coming from... the gaming world

In First Person Shooter world we have...
Some people that like fast paced FPS like Unreal Tournament and CS
Some people that like slow-paced realism like Ghost Recon or whatever

In the Real Time Strategy front we have
Some folks who like building 1 hours worth of huge empire and battle it out (Age of Empires II, Civilization, etc.)
However, some folks like "rushing" - that is, 2 minutes into the game already battling with the opponent (Warcraft III, Battle Realms comes to mind)

Heck, even in "General" terms we have one side that likes multiplayer so much yet there are people that likes singleplayer.

And you know what?

THEY NEVER AGREED ON SOMETHING. THEY CONSTANTLY BASH OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAS DIFFERENT OPINION.

Same thing with Paintball. Speedball/Airball is my choice. So what? I don't care about where Dave Youngblood or Bob Long came from, I do care what they play now. That's my opinion.

And yes my opinion will always be biased. Truth is, anyone's opinion is biased.

But you know what? Woodsball will never extinct, and so does speedball.

[jetgirl]

RabidC,
Hey, insult me, I can take it. I'm not saying that commercialism hasn't taken its toll on paintball. The only reason why I haven't been in the game as long as you have, and I envy you, is because Hawaii had an age minimum back then. Everything is delayed getting to Hawaii, so maybe the rest of the ugliness hasn't made its way here yet.
As far as the discussions about cheaters, well, we see it all the time on pro basketball and football, and it hasn't stopped yet. These discussions are interesting, but the changes have to start with us - the "average player". You are right, though. I have never played in the continental US, so I can only speak about what I see here at home. A lot of us here love our woods ball, and the field owners know that. All of them either have a woods field or are opening one shortly.
As far as kids, whiners, cheater, and pros are concerned, well, I've seen and been through enough that I don't get bent. I just try to have fun as much as I can. Guess that means I can't be a politician....

[vonort]

jetgirl:
As far as saying the cheating in PB is like the cheating in other sports. I don't buy it. The equivalent to wiping in PB in other sports would not be tolerated. To do a comparison.. It would be like blatantly late hitting the QB every time he throws the ball in Football. (guess what that player would be suspended and eventually kicked out of the sport). It would be like taking a swing at the Centers Head every time he touched the ball in Basketball (I think the NBA would frown upon this very heavily). It would be like checking the Goal Keeper in Hockey, or taking out the Keeper in Soccer every time you are on offense. You don't see this kind of thing in major sports. Yet in the great game of PB people are allowed, and even encouraged to do it. The quote I always hear. "wiping is just part of the game, get over it." Is BS!!! The biggest problem is the cheating is at every level. Rookie teams, local teams,, it is so widespread its ugly. Trying to get the average player to not cheat at tourney is near impossible. "well they are wiping why shouldn't we" is what I hear all the time.

Of course me personally, I would love to see the game go back to the late 1980's. When paint had just hit a major price break and was about $120 a case. I really don't care if other people can afford the game, and can buy stuff at Wal-mart. I never buy stuff from there anyways. I would still be playing and having fun. I really don't care if the sport grows.. I liked it the way it was.

[Stix]

Cheating? Totally encouraged...

It's not just the players mind you, it's also the people in authority that encourage cheating. I've only been playing a few months, but I've seen so much of it from players it makes me wanna puke. But if that wasn't enough it seems cheating is condoned by authorities at almost all the fields I've been to. Ref's are actually telling players to wipe, telling players that there isn't anyone at the flag, allowing people in the dead zone to call out positions, etc. They teach you how to slide to wipe off hits, and even tell people not to call themselves out unless they are pulled out. Players, even in rec ball lately slip ref's and owners a fiver or some other denomination and a lo and behold, there's that kid I shot out previously shooting at me again. And then the honest refs wonder why those stupid runts keep shooting at them when they are doing their job... Quite honestly this isn't what I signed up for, and I'm sure that's not what a lot of people who are thinking of starting paintball are expecting either. I thought that hell, this is probably just Long Island/New York thing, since all the kids here are spoiled brats, but it seems a lot more wide spread than that from what I gather...

[rabidchihauhau]

Jetgirl,

I was not insulting you - I was being hyperbolic and ridiculously over thetop in order to get some attention and give this subject some emotional content to spur future discussion.

I'm aware of how paintball developed in Hawaii (and, historical note, there was a team that some sponsors, JT among them, flew back and forth in the early nineties; there was even a 'national' series based in Hawaii those years...)

I am not attacking anyone and hope that you can see how exaggerated my posts and points have been. Glad you 'can take it' too :)

Ilikepb - you're welcome to bow out of the discussion; of course, that will only convince everyone else reading this that you have no more points to make, no more defenses to offer for your position and, since you have given up the field, your position must obviously be the incorrect one. Woodsball RULES! Yay, we win!

[p8ntballin007]

Vonort- You are correct that I need to adjust my style of play, which I have been thinking of doing. However, where I used to live I could go out buy 500 balls for $10 and that was at a field where there was no entrance fee and air was free with purchase of paint. That would keep me happy for a full day of play plus left overs to plink around with at home. Now if I wanna buy 500 balls I have to drive 45 minutes, pay the $25 field fee, be reffed by complete jerks, and also pay $25 for field paint, which will last all day but when I go home now I have no place to shoot around ( I moved to the city, which I don't blame on the pb comunity it is my fault). The only way that I can adjust my style of play is to go stock class. With the closest feild that can harbor stock class play being god knows where. So if I adjust my style of play I can't play anymore, and if I stick with my style of play I can't play anymore. Paintball is not fit for college students with no money. only the credit card kid will survive.

[jesseyo13]

The sport is getting somehwhat old to me. It just not fun anymore using my Ir3 against tippman pro carbines. If you really want a challenge, just use a maverick against the rentals and do like 5vs 10. I notice that when I go back to my electro I wait for a clean shot, instead of just ripping.

[vonort]

p8ntballin007:
Sorry didn't really mean to jump you there. (I re-read my post). Just it drives me nuts when people say paint is high priced. I have to take into consideration that a lot of feilds do gouge on paint prices. I play mostly bandit ball. Buy decent paint at a resonable price. (i'm one of the lucky ones i guess). But I do know of organized feilds that charge 2x if not more for the same paint. So its not the paint producers that are the problem. Its the feilds. Yes I know they have to make a profit.. but they can sell the paint cheaper than what they do and still make good money.

[rabidchihauhau]

Let's talk ridiculous for a second.

Its embarassing to be a member of a 23 year old industry that can't doesn't even have an independant industry organization.

Its embarassing that we can be this old and still have the internecine fighting going on for 'control' of an industry that can't be controlled.

Just plain stupid.