Only with a AGD Mag

[Trick]

Well, you see, most human beings are not stupid enough to hook up a damn scuba straight into the timmy without a regulator in there somewhere.

If you are that stupid, if something bad happens to you, you deserve it.

So you just keep telling the world that your mag is safer... and the world will not care.

[lamby]

what is the point of this thread? most if not all other guns have dual regulators. the tank being the first regulator and the markers primary regulator. If either get fails, there will be venting (that is what the small hole does in regulators) there is NO WAY a failed reg will dump the full 3000 psi into the gun. Even if it does, the second reg should then go into an over pressure protective state. I use a CP reg on my cocker and I am pretty sure the exhaust pressure is 500psi. This is nowhere near the 3000psi you are demanding.

I think this thread is a bit useless

[Beemer]

Thats my question, why would there be a standard like that?

[Lohman446]

The point of this thread is why does this industry go to the effort, time and expense of making safety rules and than not bother to follow them. Remember the 13BPS cap??

Why do we change rules in NPPL and PSP whenever someone wants around them - force feed loaders for isntance.

If we have these rules for the industry, then have them, otherwise get rid of the things and quit wasting time and effort on them - dont have them and ignore them

[RRfireblade]

The point of this thread is why does this industry go to the effort, time and expense of making safety rules and than not bother to follow them.

A) No,the point of the thread was to brag about Mags,I have no problem w/ that.

And

2) Who says they aren't being followed? I see no evidence that 3K will cause "catastrophic failure" in any of the guns we're talking about here.

Fed into the stock reg on a Timmy.....no "catastrophic failure" some leaking and the potential for functional damage, sure but catastrophic....no.

Fed into the stock reg on a Cocker....no "catastrophic failure", some leaking and failure to fire.

Fed into the stock reg on a Impulse or Shocker...no "catastrophic failure,in fact it's the same reg that comes on thier MafFlo tank so actually with the correct spring/piston it will function normally.

Fed into a blowback....no "catastrophic failure", some leaking and failure to fire.

So on and so on pretty much.

I don't see what the big deal is, do you think that the marker body is going to explode into a thousand shards of metal and wreak havock on every living thing in its path? Sorry but not likely.

[slade]

I don't see what the big deal is, do you think that the marker body is going to explode into a thousand shards of metal and wreak havock on every living thing in its path? Sorry but not likely.

well, if it was made by brass eagle...

[RRfireblade]

well, if it was made by brass eagle...

Dang, I was hoping no one would bring them up.

[gc82000]

well, if it was made by brass eagle...

And I can see the mushroom cloud forming now.
At this point I would just like to say burn baby burn.

[Beemer]

Maybe

RR reread my posts and note the key words SAFETY and STANDARDS.

Now hit those babies with 4500psi and where we at.

I didnt make that up. Thats right off the ASTM standard sheet.

Any other gun valve out there stamped, rated to 3000psi [really I dont know]

I also dont know what all the fail safes are on all the tank regs. Some do some dont or WHAT. Help me out. what if does fail.

Oh wait lets unscrew our tanks under pressure with a valve thats screwed into the tank.
Wait this is really Rocket Science. Give the boys at NASA a 4500 set up with screw in tanks plastic lines and swivel fittings and bla bla, then come back a week later when they are done laughing.

This is the PaintBall Department we are sorry to inform you your Mother,Wife,Son are dead because of our stupidity.

Mango hit that baby with 3000

[PzYcO]

Thats why Impulse's have those little brass "burst disk" things... yeaaaaaah.... i know what im talking about.......

[Thordic]

I would bet most guns would take 3000 psi without structural damage.

Damage to orings, some internals maybe, dead solenoids obviously.

But I doubt anything would blow up.

This is assuming you didn't try to operate the gun at 3000psi, at which point you'd prolly shoot a bolt down the barrel. It also assumes you realize you are putting 3000psi into the gun and fix the problem ASAP.

Small-diameter round passageways are very strong. Look at macroline. Its plastic and can hold upwards of 1,000 PSI before it bursts, with what, a 1/16th wall?

Your gun is made out of a fairly strong aluminum, with 1/8 - 1/4 walls. Some of the more milled guns get down a little thinner, prolly.

I'd be more worried about fittings going, 3000 psi may be enough to convince threads to let go.

But worrying about the aluminum walls rupturing, I just really doubt that would happen.

[RRfireblade]

RR reread my posts and note the key words SAFETY and STANDARDS.

I have and I stand behind my post. "Catastrophic failure" and simply damaged are to different isssues.

Will the average paintball gun fracture and cause serious injury to a user 3K is fed into it. I still say no way.As for the plastic pump guns, they are designed for 12G Co2 at 1.8K max and my guess is they will do fine there as well.

I also don't know how you switched gears from the 2200psi in the Zman vid to 4500psi across the board.Even you state that the Mag valve is rated for 3K so you've now lost your own arguement right there.

As I also have stated, what do you think is inside the Reg on a 4.5K HPA Tank? It aint Kryptonite I assure you. It's the same parts used inside most on gun regs....or worse.What you should really be arguing is the quality and saftey of the HPA Regs you are so concerned about failing.That is primarily where the real danger is anyway.I'm quite confident in the overall strength of the average aluminum gun body.

[Beemer]

Ok

Let me rephrase.

If the tank reg fails at full pressure[3000 or 4500 psi] what happens? I never said the gun would blow up. Maybe a flying part or 2.

Can you say its impossible for a reg to fail? If it does, is it impossible for the full pressure to get down line? Whats the fail safe?


"I also don't know how you switched gears from the 2200psi in the Zman vid to 4500psi across the board.Even you state that the Mag valve is rated for 3K so you've now lost your own arguement right there."

Sorry I missed that. I jumped from 3000 to 4500 psi after you said this.

"2) Who says they aren't being followed? I see no evidence that 3K will cause "catastrophic failure" in any of the guns we're talking about here."

"Even you state that the Mag valve is rated for 3K so you've now lost your own arguement right there."

Have I? Is there anybody else stating their valve is rated at 3000 and stamping it or even testing it at 3000 or 4500. No the mag aint rated at 4500 but at least I know its tested and rated for 3000.

"What you should really be arguing is the quality and saftey of the HPA Regs you are so concerned about failing.That is primarily where the real danger is anyway.

I agree. I started on the wrong end.


Heres the point. 2 loved ones are gone due to one reason or other from air cyclinders we use in Paintball. The first place the CPSC is looking is ASTM standards. The question is where will we be when the lawyers of 2 families and the CPSC are done looking at how we use air systems and what the fail safes are. The investigation by the CPSC is still ongoing


Peace out
Beemer

I.A.D.S.P.B.P

[RRfireblade]

Hwy Beener,

Let me just say this, I do agree with your feelings in saftey and standards as they should apply. Please don't confuse my comments with that.I also don't argue with most of your concerns with enacting and enforcing those concerns.

My real only point is in regards the original question of this thread, "What would happen if full tank pressure dumps into a marker?", is this......

In the vast majority of the cases IMO, it will only result in pressure induced leaks and the potential damage to the functional parts of a marker. I personally do not believe that it will cause 'catastrophic' failure,meaning partial or complete failure of the structural parts of a marker thereby causing severe injury to the user.Blow off a line? Sure. Blow up a soleniod? Sure. Have the body and/or frame of the marker fracture and break potentially throwing shrapnel and severe injury causing debris at the user? I honestly don't believe so.I honestly believe your far more likely to have an occurance like that from the tank Reg itself just after a fill and seperate from the marker.

Jay.

[rabidchihauhau]

let's go back for a second and make sure we're defining terms correctly: 'catastrophic failure' means that everything from the tank reg on down the line FAILS.

Pretend you're having a bad day: pretend that you're past the point of abort in your flight plan, your main oxygen storage tank just blew up because someone didn't wire its circulating fan correctly, the explosion took out your secondary tank AND all of your power systems are operated off of fuel cells that utilize the oxygen from the tanks to make electricity....

the backups for the backups failed and we almost lost three men in space.

my point is - it IS rocket science. just as we borrow from other industries to make our high tech gear, we should also be borrowing their QA/QC and failure engineering disciplines.

Nothing out there, with the possible exception of the mag and a couple of other things, has components that are expected to hold pressure that have been tested to the proper degree. Perhaps they'll work just fine because the mfg got it right - but I want to see a 'UL' style seal of approval on ANYTHING that's going to be a pressure vessel...