Warp or Q-loader

[1ofkind]

I use a 88 ci tank! Beat that!

[PsychoBaller]

Psychoballer have you seen the new pricing? $130 for the "pro" set now. Comes with 5 loaders. Thinking of getting one for my Hurricaine. Just need to figure out how to attach it without messing her up.

I was not aware o that... but still... 100rds on a gun that can shoot anything from 15bps + is kinda stupid...

Unless u play front, and dont use any paint ever... heh..

[Magglerock]

i stil dont see a amrket for q-loaders other then rec and scenario if your in tourneys ide say warp just for the amt of paint it can hold and reasons emntioned above

Yeah, there's no market - that's why they are selling like hot cakes. And the warp? It will be discontinued soon due to lack of interest. But you're right, no market. As for the guy that said they are the same speed, you're wrong. The Q shoots about 10 bps faster than a warp - roughly 50% faster.

[Empyreal Rogue]

I was not aware o that... but still... 100rds on a gun that can shoot anything from 15bps + is kinda stupid...

Unless u play front, and dont use any paint ever... heh..

Like me. I do more running than shooting.

1ofaKind, do you know anything about the Q-Loader? The Warp Feed and Q-Loader are nowhere near each other in speed. First off the Warp Feed can only feed as fast as the hopper on it can feed so you're severely limited unless you WANT to put a bulky HALO B on it...

GoatBoy, I agree that only a handful of the mounting spots are comfortable, but how many HALOs can be mounted anywhere other than on the Feed Neck? That was my point. He was whining about the "lack of areas to mount the Q-Loader" which is just plain silly, I think. Beggers can't be choosers. And as for mounting the Warp anywhere else... Ummm... how and where would you do that? o_O

[Lohman446]

But the warp is more forgiving of stupidity.

Take one of those Q-loaders apart without reading the directions and try to get it to work riht again... Q loader pod.. mine lasted abotu three games before the first pod found a surprise endign, when I yanked it off and showed it the bunker..

Great idea though, it just outsmarted me

[mixwell2]

Well I have used both on my mag and I have to say I like the Warp Better.
Like I allways say just find one and try 'em both. Thats what I did and I like the Warp better.

It all comes down to personal feel.

They both are cabable of 22+ BPS. They both give a lower profile. The weight it a mute point. The warp weights 15ounces...if that throws off your game then you need to hit the gym.
The Warp does give you a tighter profile than the Q-loader even when the Q is under the barrel or next to the tank since in these postions the feed hose is "more in the open" except on the tippman
q picks

The only draw back of the warp vs. the q loader is batteries.

Besides if you are gonna throw strings of paint at 20+ bps then you shouldn't get either one. Get a Halo B and learn to play tighter in your bunker
I will get a Q loader when they make a marker that shoot 80+bps and doesn't chop paint

[the larch]

First, the speed of reloading a qloader in proficent hands is ALOT faster than reloading a hopper. The "not enough ammo" argument IMHO is silly. Uhm, how much does a halo hold? 140? Is it really worth the extra weight?
With a jt slam pack, (what I use) a qloader magazine goes right back into the pack. Yank it out slam it into your pack and yank out a new one...simple.
I have a hard time believing that anyone thinks that the dissassembly and reassembly of a warp is EASIER than that of a qloader pod. The only way a warp is easier is if you have EXPERIENCE with it beforehand.
As far as mounting options go.....come on. Compared to a regular hopper set up, or even a warp? The real limting factor of the q loader is the marker itself. Too bad there are no bottom feed markers out there....imagine that with a q-loader.
NO BATTERIES.
If you do screw up ONE of your pods, you have others, your day is not over.
I acknowledge that qloaders are new. They have bugs, but to me, it's pretty obvious that bottom loaded forcefed magazines are the future of paintball.
naysayers beware. You'll probably be buying something just like this within the next two years just to keep up with the rest of the field.

[mixwell2]

What would it matter if the marker was a bottom feed TODAY. A Warp on a PF mag is pretty close to a bottom feed. So if anyone has a PF mag with a Q loader speak up on the "insane" rate of fire. Markers can only shoot so fast without chopping. You said it yourself the limmiting factor for a q loader is todays markers. So for today you should use what feels comfortable.

In "two years" if markers can shoot fast enough then maybe everyone will have one. The q laoder is definetly ahead of its time.

As far as reloading "ALOT" faster. it takes less time to reload with a pod.
It took the q loader rep 9 seconds to switch out the tube

I had a friend time me. (5) tests and it took an average of six seconds to reload with a Halo B on my warp. Granted i tossed my pods but that is the advantage of a warp. In the last 8 years, that is as far back as I can remember, I have not lost a pod because of "tossing it" if I do loose one oh well $ 1.00 it is vs. $15

So a 3 second difference that really doe not sound like "ALOT" faster. In a senario or rec game 3 seconds probably makes no difference but in speed ball or close quaters 3 seconds can make all the difference

[GoatBoy]

As far as reloading "ALOT" faster. it takes less time to reload with a pod.
It took the q loader rep 9 seconds to switch out the tube

I had a friend time me. (5) tests and it took an average of six seconds to reload with a Halo B on my warp. Granted i tossed my pods but that is the advantage of a warp. In the last 8 years, that is as far back as I can remember, I have not lost a pod because of "tossing it" if I do loose one oh well $ 1.00 it is vs. $15

So a 3 second difference that really doe not sound like "ALOT" faster. In a senario or rec game 3 seconds probably makes no difference but in speed ball or close quaters 3 seconds can make all the difference

Quite frankly, I'm not going to even attempt the BPS speed issue. People just don't get it.


The reloading of a q-loader might be worse than a regular pod for one reason, and it's a political BS reason: from what I hear, some tournaments consider q-pods live equipment and thus you must put them back into your pack. This puts the q-loader at a clear disadvantage, which is I'm sure a result of some bigoted yahoo in the tournament scene wanting to see the q-loader killed. Otherwise, I'd just simply drop the pod as I reloaded.

If you do away with that, then reloading a Q is easily faster than a normal pod. It's also easier to keep your gun up and your eyes looking forward while doing it. When the pod's off, or empty, I usually get at least about 5 shots from the tube, and the good thing about the level 10 is if I run the pod dry and get a half feed, I still have less chance of chopping one.

Lastly, there is one thing that AIC could do to the q-loader to drop the reload time even further . Of course, they don't listen to me, so they're stuck with their bumbling idiot demonstrating his 9 second reloads.


Actually, I'd like to see you doing your 6-second reload on your warp. Preferably with paint, because you have to watch the paint get in there and maybe sometimes scoop excess paint. I'm not saying it can't be done, but doing it properly and well as quickly as reloading a q-loader is a tall order.


Empyreal Rogue: I was saying that even though there are a lot of "options", most of them are really nonsensical. Of all the current mounting options, there are two that probably work the best, and I still don't like either of those two.

[1ofkind]

How do you reload w/a Q loader anyway? Also isn't there a spiral thing in each pod?

[mixwell2]

Quite frankly, I'm not going to even attempt the BPS speed issue. People just don't get it.
It's also easier to keep your gun up and your eyes looking forward while doing it. When the pod's off, or empty, I usually get at least about 5 shots from the tube, and the good thing about the level 10 is if I run the pod dry and get a half feed, I still have less chance of chopping one.

Lastly, there is one thing that AIC could do to the q-loader to drop the reload time even further . Of course, they don't listen to me, so they're stuck with their bumbling idiot demonstrating his 9 second reloads.


Actually, I'd like to see you doing your 6-second reload on your warp. Preferably with paint, because you have to watch the paint get in there and maybe sometimes scoop excess paint. I'm not saying it can't be done, but doing it properly and well as quickly as reloading a q-loader is a tall order.

You won't touch the BPS issue because you know as well as I do that the Q loader can feed 500 bps and it would not change the fact that it is restricted by the markers of today...as I stated in my post.

As far as keeping your gun up well that is what makes some players better than others. I have seen plenty of warp and "conventioal" loader users keep their guns up and eyes forward. Since they both use a tube feed both can get "extra" shots. The difference is that I can reloader whenever I want. A q has to wait until you are dry...unless of course you like waisting paint. I mean it would not make sense to pull off my halo for a full one when i have 10+ shots left...I would just fill it and keep those 10+ rounds

It is not my fault that I takes the guy 9 seconds but that was the only reference I had. He was going as fast as he could and so was I. Granted in "real game" conditions it may take me 45 seconds but I just tried to simulate his test.

I will agree with you on one point the L10 does kick a** good thing I have one in my mag too.

[Magglerock]

Lastly, there is one thing that AIC could do to the q-loader to drop the reload time even further . Of course, they don't listen to me, so they're stuck with their bumbling idiot demonstrating his 9 second reloads.

[/URL]



Empyreal Rogue: I was saying that even though there are a lot of "options", most of them are really nonsensical. Of all the current mounting options, there are two that probably work the best, and I still don't like either of those two.

What was your suggestion?

[Evil Bob]

Capacity

Q-Loader: 100 rounds. They will have longer pods in the future to hold more paint per reload.

Normal hoppers: 180-200+ rounds


Feed Speed comparison:

They're both faster then your marker, so what's the point on debating this one?


Reload comparison:

Q-loader:

This is assuming you're dumping your empty pods on the ground...

1) hand moves from gun.
2) hand to Q-loader, pulls empty pod from loader.
3) hand to pack, pulls full pod.
4) hand to Q-loarder, inserts full pod.
5) hand back to gun.

With practice it takes 5 seconds. If you're not dumping your pods, add an extra 5 seconds to put the empty into the pack before you're reloading.


Regular hoppers.

1) hand moves from gun.
2) hand pulls full pod from pack.
3) hand moves to hopper.
4) pop hopper and pod open, dump, and drop pod.
5) hand closes hopper (optional).
6) hand back to gun

With practice, it takes 5 seconds to reload. Take your time putting the empty back into your pack, you're already done reloading.

For you guys debating speed, just watch video of tourny players dumping paint into their hoppers, they do it pretty damn fast. Anyone who has spent alot of time on the speedball fields will tell you that it takes practice practice, practice to load fast, it's a necessary skill.

My personal feelings on the two:

I like having 180+ rounds over only 100.

I use a warp. I like having an extra 10 rounds in the warp that will feed once my hopper (halo) is empty and spinning madly. I like to have paint in my marker at all times when playing especially while reloading, which is a very opportune time to get mugged. I can't stand not being able to fire back at any time, this is the primary reason why I dont like the q-loader all that much and gave it to my kid.

Tourney rules on the q-loader: this has to do with the force feed mechanism in the pods themselves. If I were to set my warp or my hopper down on the field, either would be fair game to shoot to eliminate me because those devices are deemed a physical part of the marker to make it shoot paint, the Q-Loader cannot shoot paint without it's pod mounted, that's just the way it works. This isn't a new rule they added just to exclude the q-loaders, its a rule that's been around for quite a while. Hell a few years ago they used to shoot pods that were left on the ground, they used to make you pack everything with you or risk getting eliminated. That rule changed and more then likely as popularity for the q-loader grows this stupid rule will change as well.

-Evil Bob

[GoatBoy]

You won't touch the BPS issue because you know as well as I do that the Q loader can feed 500 bps and it would not change the fact that it is restricted by the markers of today...as I stated in my post.

As far as keeping your gun up well that is what makes some players better than others. I have seen plenty of warp and "conventioal" loader users keep their guns up and eyes forward. Since they both use a tube feed both can get "extra" shots. The difference is that I can reloader whenever I want. A q has to wait until you are dry...unless of course you like waisting paint. I mean it would not make sense to pull off my halo for a full one when i have 10+ shots left...I would just fill it and keep those 10+ rounds

It is not my fault that I takes the guy 9 seconds but that was the only reference I had. He was going as fast as he could and so was I. Granted in "real game" conditions it may take me 45 seconds but I just tried to simulate his test.

I will agree with you on one point the L10 does kick a** good thing I have one in my mag too.

I won't touch the BPS issue because it's a red herring. It's fast enough to keep up with you. That's a positive, not a negative. Trying to make it sound like a negative is stretching it.

Keeping a gun up while reloading a conventional loader is NOT an easy task. If you don't believe me, just find some videos and watch them yourself; I already made a thread about it. I sat down and started watching videos looking for this specific thing, and it took me a long time to find an instance of it being successfully executed.

Let me be really specific: you say you've seen people reload gun up, eyes forward. Is that how YOU reload, every time? If not, why not? Would you benefit from a mechanism which would make doing it easier?

And while you say you can reload whenever you want, what happens when you reload when the halo's not completely empty? You waste paint. You fill what you can and then you scoop and toss the rest out. Most of the time people aren't fitting their entire contents of a pod into their halo; they play the scoop and dump game which takes both time and attention while wasting paint.

I know it's not your fault that the q-loader rep's a little slow on the draw. But perhaps now you can say you're a little better informed?




Magglerock: In order of difficulty,

1. Make the pods auto-ejecting when they reach the end (probably too difficult)
2. Put a spring in the socket so the pod pops off by only twisting it (probably have issues fitting this in properly)
3. Put some sort of tab or wing on the q-pod or something where you can get the pod out of the socket without having to grab it. Maybe some sort of lever you just hit to get the pod off or something.

The q-loader reload shares one slow point with reloading conventional hoppers: reaching back to your pack to get the next pod.

The problem is we only have two hands, and one of those hands is holding the gun up. We can't reach back and grab a new pod until the current pod has been removed.

The solution is to make it so that you don't need full dexterity to remove a current pod. This way you can reach back and grab the new pod at your leisure when you know a reload is coming up, then when you're ready, you smack the old pod off and immediately stuff the new one on. The effective user/gun downtime for a reload like this would be... what, 2-3 seconds?

[GoatBoy]

Regular hoppers.

1) hand moves from gun.
2) hand pulls full pod from pack.
3) hand moves to hopper.
4) pop hopper and pod open, dump, and drop pod.
5) hand closes hopper (optional).
6) hand back to gun

Good, someone else has at least taken the time to analyze this.

However, you missed a few things... The scoop and dump, and the tilt gun forward. They're part of every nutritious reload. Yes, it takes practice, practice, practice. In fact, some (most?) people, even after practice, still can't get it completely right.

For you guys debating speed, just watch video of tourny players dumping paint into their hoppers, they do it pretty damn fast. Anyone who has spent alot of time on the speedball fields will tell you that it takes practice practice, practice to load fast, it's a necessary skill.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=132648

Tourney rules on the q-loader: this has to do with the force feed mechanism in the pods themselves. If I were to set my warp or my hopper down on the field, either would be fair game to shoot to eliminate me because those devices are deemed a physical part of the marker to make it shoot paint, the Q-Loader cannot shoot paint without it's pod mounted, that's just the way it works. This isn't a new rule they added just to exclude the q-loaders, its a rule that's been around for quite a while. Hell a few years ago they used to shoot pods that were left on the ground, they used to make you pack everything with you or risk getting eliminated. That rule changed and more then likely as popularity for the q-loader grows this stupid rule will change as well.

Actually, I'm having trouble understanding this... Because its force fed, it's deemed a physical part of the marker? Is that what the ruling is?