How bad is flash filling for HPA tanks?

[xXHavokXx]

That just doesn't fly with me. Its okay to disreguard saftey because there are games to be played? Now if someone gets killed, will you still feel the same way? I hope it doesn't have to come to that, because then it will be too late.

It's not so much that I want to disreguard safety, I'm merely pointing out the inherent problem in the safe speed. Yes I agree there needs to be a safer way to do this but until safety meets speed people are going to err on the side of getting things done.

Like today for instance. We got about 9 kids in at the same time all who wanted 3000 fills because they play in a private field behind a house so they take breaks and get fills as we are 15 min away. 9 kids X 6 minutes is only 45 minutes but do I really want to sit there holding down the fil station button for 45 minutes while the ravenous hordes of people who aren't having their tanks filled pick on the one other guy working. Then we'd have to have another employee come in to fill CO2 because we keep the co2 tanks in the back away from customers for safety reasons, so we'd need another guy to run the register and help people out creating a pay problem. We'd need three people instead of 2.

[Setzer]

It's not so much that I want to disreguard safety, I'm merely pointing out the inherent problem in the safe speed. Yes I agree there needs to be a safer way to do this but until safety meets speed people are going to err on the side of getting things done.

Good, we seem to agree on somthing

Like today for instance. We got about 9 kids in at the same time all who wanted 3000 fills because they play in a private field behind a house so they take breaks and get fills as we are 15 min away. 9 kids X 6 minutes is only 45 minutes but do I really want to sit there holding down the fil station button for 45 minutes while the ravenous hordes of people who aren't having their tanks filled pick on the one other guy working. Then we'd have to have another employee come in to fill CO2 because we keep the co2 tanks in the back away from customers for safety reasons, so we'd need another guy to run the register and help people out creating a pay problem. We'd need three people instead of 2.

And herein lies the other part of the issue. Not only does saftey take too long, but it costs too much money. There needs to be a way of being safe, without sending the fields, including the small ones, under. Unfortunatly, there is no way to increase saftey while keeping costs the same. If there was, many fields would of already done it. Costs for more fill stations, people to operate them, ect. Well, once someone dies, or is seriously injured, not only are you going to have to go through those costs, but chances are pretty good that insurance costs will go up too...now that they know for a fact how dangerous it can be.

I think we'e pretty much covered this. I can totally see your side of this xXHavokXx, and understand where you are coming from. Its not fun standing in line waiting for air. And fields do not make enough money to buy extra fill stations, compressors, and pay for more staff. Unfortunatly, in order to save money and time, people in general have decided to push saftey off to the side. Nothing really bad has happened so far, and hopefully it never will. I think we all can agree that there needs to be a better way, so somthing bad does not have to happen in order to have things changed.

[LeatherPants]

FYI flash fills slowly bend the piston in the fill nipples for PMI tanks. I noticed that all 3 of my tanks over time the piston actually gets crushed to the point it no longer seals. It bends so the either the Oring gets pinched or will not seat correctly..

[_tMAN]

I wish I had a real field around here.
we only have a scuba shop about 10 minutes from me, they can only fill my tank to 3200 psi. I have a 91/4500, kind o makes me mad that I can't fill it fully

[jewie27]

I wish I had a real field around here.
we only have a scuba shop about 10 minutes from me, they can only fill my tank to 3200 psi. I have a 91/4500, kind o makes me mad that I can't fill it fully

My shop's Bauer compressor does 4500 psi.

[_tMAN]

dang you

[teufelhunden]

If this was truly unsafe, I'd bet something a) would've happened already and b) something would've changed. Tanks are hydro'd every 3-5 years, so something would be caught. People filling the tanks are usually at least competent in paintball, seeing as they were smart enough to get HPA... and if their tank turns colors they'd ask somebody 'wtf?'

I just get pissed when I buy a 4500PSI fill that ends up cooling off at 3800-3900 PSI.

[logamus]

i have used several different push button systems. i havent seen one that fills in 2-3 seconds, but usually less than a minute. my beef with them is that nobody is there to check the dates on peoples tanks. now i wouldnt use a tank thats out of date, and the people i play with on a regular basis wouldnt either, but there are a lot of kids out there that dont even know their tank has a date.

[Setzer]

If this was truly unsafe, I'd bet something a) would've happened already and b) something would've changed. Tanks are hydro'd every 3-5 years, so something would be caught. People filling the tanks are usually at least competent in paintball, seeing as they were smart enough to get HPA... and if their tank turns colors they'd ask somebody 'wtf?'

I just get pissed when I buy a 4500PSI fill that ends up cooling off at 3800-3900 PSI.

Thats another side effect of flash filling. The tanks heat up, which makes the air inside expand, creating higher pressure. When it cools off, you now have 3800-3900psi inside. Also, the push button fillers don't have people there checking hydro dates. Now, 5 years is a long time between hydros. If you fill your tank up twice a week, thats 104 fills per year. 520 fills between hydros. If those were flash fills, a lot of damage can be done to the tank. Flash fills wear out the elastisity of the tank. Now, to say that "if it really was unsafe, something bad would of happened by now" is just ignorance.

[NukeGoose]

If the rate of filling is slowed down, then more people should be able to fill per station. Perhaps a slew of Y-connectors to allow 5 or 10 people (spread out, of course) to fill slowly at the same time? I'm not very familiar with air compressors, but I'm guessing that there's a large tank which is filled to over 4500 PSI, which is pressurized by the compressor, and the large chamber feeds the tanks? If so, then you should still be able to get the same flow out of the tank/line, just add multiple stations.

[Beemer]

Ya I know. Back to post more later. There is a reason.

[t_boneshacone]

ehh my field has one and it takes about 5 seconds, the tank doesnt get any warmer than it does when filling off a scuba tank, as a matter of fact, it doesnt get as warm, well compared to my other filling place. i really dont know anything about filling tanks, i just know that push button is easy and my tank works fine with it

[ta2maki]

Is 'psi per minute' the correct way to determine how fast a tank is filled? If friction from the air is a bad thing, shouldn't larger tanks take longer to fill than a slower tank? Which would mean the 500 psi per minute would only apply to 80cu ft tanks, paintball tanks are much, much smaller and should be able to fill faster.

[Chrishew09]

they way I understand it is like this.
if you fill a HP tank quickly then the air is heated and heated air molecules are further apart then cooler air molecules so once the air cools and the molecules reduce so does the fill.

my 2 cents..........

[Chaos_Theory!]

they way I understand it is like this.
if you fill a HP tank quickly then the air is heated and heated air molecules are further apart then cooler air molecules so once the air cools and the molecules reduce so does the fill.

my 2 cents..........

Thats obvious, but really has nothing to do with it being dangerous.