im sorry

[hardr0ck68]

LOL i find this all very funny
LIKE NONE OF YOU HAVE LIED ON AN ONLINE FORUM...weather your one of the 180+ dopes that said you had an e-mag when there were only like 80 of them out on a limited basis, or tellin some story of grandure (i bunkered all of the all americans one day...they were gonna let me on the team but i declined) or if its in your sig, where you have 20 high end low production guns listed...there are only so many (C and C angels and free flow cockers out there, not everyone on the boards can have 2) this kid just told a lie that got out of hand....lord cut him a break. the real problem here in my eyes is that AGD has produced a less than top quality product. I know there trying to fix it, but they released it without enough testing...this is very unlike them, thats what upsets me i buy agd for the quality, not the flash or the ROF or anything else if there gonna start lettin quality slide for other stuff maybe its time i go angle like the rest of the known world... now lets all take a deep breat, relax out spinters, change our sigs (sorry but my #0003 bone-break, C and C, lcd angel is really a 1997 spyder with an x-chamber)and let the boy live down his friggin mistake....remember let he without sin toss the first superbolt!

[PsychoMag]

this isnt a flame, but that was childish. The players and friends on this forum are here to make paintball a safe and fun activity for all, whether a rec. player, newbie, or touney player, the objective is safe, honest, paintball. What is to happen if an upset mother saw the recall? we all know the power of false information, especially when it could cause harm. Remember the rumor of the RT? I still hear today on the field about the RT being a blender, that rumor is years old. I know this information is on other forums and it needs to be corrected. It is a sad day on the forums for AGD again. Think about your actions and who they will affect before you act. Tom Kaye is one of the most dedicated members of the community and this was uncalled for.

::stepping down from soapbox in disgust::

just my $.02

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by hardr0ck68
LOL i find this all very funny
LIKE NONE OF YOU HAVE LIED ON AN ONLINE FORUM...weather your one of the 180+ dopes that said you had an e-mag when there were only like 80 of them out on a limited basis, or tellin some story of grandure (i bunkered all of the all americans one day...they were gonna let me on the team but i declined) or if its in your sig, where you have 20 high end low production guns listed...there are only so many (C and C angels and free flow cockers out there, not everyone on the boards can have 2) this kid just told a lie that got out of hand....lord cut him a break. the real problem here in my eyes is that AGD has produced a less than top quality product. I know there trying to fix it, but they released it without enough testing...this is very unlike them, thats what upsets me i buy agd for the quality, not the flash or the ROF or anything else if there gonna start lettin quality slide for other stuff maybe its time i go angle like the rest of the known world... now lets all take a deep breat, relax out spinters, change our sigs (sorry but my #0003 bone-break, C and C, lcd angel is really a 1997 spyder with an x-chamber)and let the boy live down his friggin mistake....remember let he without sin toss the first superbolt!

A mistake that very well could have cost AGD THOUSANDS to remedy. Not to mention lost sales from the bad rep. Now the superbolt recall will float with the rumors that cockers have more range. Do you know how long that myth has been around?

Ill give him a break when he pays for the losses that AGD incurred, aplologizes for the lost sleep and added stress that came during the HOLIDAY SEASON, and pays for a televison commercial and any additional marketing that will help AGD clear its name.

Sorry this isnt exactly a little white lie. This cost lots of people money, time, and stress.

So what you are saying is that if he committed fraud he shouldent be punished cause he apologized, sorry we live in the real world. We have real reprecussions for our actions.

[tremis]

hmmmm....figures. If anybody read my posts in the thread about the recall, you'll know I'm not suprised. Nobody likes an " I told you so" so I wont say it.

(But I guess i already did )

Tremis

[Webmaster]

I would like to say a few words to put things in perspective...

First of all - all of you are responsible for what you "say" and type on this forum. Believe it or not - what you do may effect other people on the forum.

While AGD did have problems with SOME of the superbolts - overall the product was doing fine. They could quickly replace what was broken and work to making it more reliable for all.

No one gets sued over a product that breaks and is replaced.

People do get sued if thier product injures another person. Lying about this is extremely vile in my eyes. Its akin to crying wolf or screaming fire in a theatre. While I know Tom takes everything with a grain of salt on here, he can not afford to when it comes to a safety issue. In terms a lawsuits etc, one must PROMPTLY respond to a safety issue to prevent both injuries and lawsuits.

What this kid did is I am sure illegal. I am not sure if its "lible" - but making false statments is a crime. And there HAS been people arrested for this in the past. I know of one case where someone made false statements on a stock forum and artificially drove up a bum stock so he could cash out. The was arrested and I think is serving jail time.

I dont know what Tom is planning to do, but this is WAY beyond a harmless prank. It cost real money in terms of resources and time. I dont know what good a lawsuit would do against someone whose most valuable possesion is a PlayStation 2.

But I do think this should all be an example for us - on this forum and in life. That what we do effects others and that we will be held responsible for those actions.

[irbodden]

Originally posted by hardr0ck68
LOL i find this all very funny
LIKE NONE OF YOU HAVE LIED ON AN ONLINE FORUM...weather your one of the 180+ dopes that said you had an e-mag when there were only like 80 of them out on a limited basis, or tellin some story of grandure (i bunkered all of the all americans one day...they were gonna let me on the team but i declined) or if its in your sig, where you have 20 high end low production guns listed...there are only so many (C and C angels and free flow cockers out there, not everyone on the boards can have 2) this kid just told a lie that got out of hand....lord cut him a break. the real problem here in my eyes is that AGD has produced a less than top quality product. I know there trying to fix it, but they released it without enough testing...this is very unlike them, thats what upsets me i buy agd for the quality, not the flash or the ROF or anything else if there gonna start lettin quality slide for other stuff maybe its time i go angle like the rest of the known world... now lets all take a deep breat, relax out spinters, change our sigs (sorry but my #0003 bone-break, C and C, lcd angel is really a 1997 spyder with an x-chamber)and let the boy live down his friggin mistake....remember let he without sin toss the first superbolt!

This "lie" involved the owner of a company, a team of lawyers, and a huge bill NOT some kid making up what he got for Christmas. Second, most memebers on this board are thruthful, for example Muzicman who "claims" to have the most ultra rare guns DOES. He's got a guncase the size of Texas filled with these pieces of paintball history. So before pointing the finger at everyone else, realize what a moron kid this is, and how much he costed AGD. It was a stupid thing to do, and I hope is parents are punishing him.

Does anyone know roughly how old this kid is anyways?

[Dragoon]

Webby I agree with your post.

If someone did this to my company I would seriously consider a liable suit. Not to regain direct costs associated with the lie/recall, but to regain lost reputation by loudly and publicly exposing the culprit.

Douglas

[cphilip]

Gee...darn it@! I am off for a day or so and don't get to exercise my pessimism...

I want to remind you that a few others jumped right on the band wagon on this one too reporting problems. I wanna see those too now.

Disgusting behavior...I am just plain appalled by this. I don't know what to say.

To all of us from AO I am so very sorry this happened Tom.

[MrStrike]

Burn me once, shame on you! Burn me twice, shame on me.

There is one fallout that hasent been said about this issue. I think Automags.org has lost a lot of credibility with Mr. Kaye. (I assume)From this point on EVERY post Mr. Kaye reads there will be a small nagging doubt in the back of his mind asking "is this true or another lie?".
After reading this SUPERBOLT SAGA I too will be asking the same question on every post I read.

[dawump]

If this was my company I would be sueing.. I wouldn't take it all the way to court, but I would take legal steps to create publicity so that the amount of exposure was GREATER than the amount of exposure created by the desception to turn this around to positive PR. I support AGD in doing this also.

Let's put this in perspective. The only person who has been "honest" here is Tom. To take the step of announcing a product recall based on the possibility of Injury or Death is a HUGE step for a company. It is the worst POSSIBLE scenario for any company, and for that reason many companies don't do it even when the risk is real. Just look at the Auto industry where there are many documented cases where calculations have been made which show that recall will cost more than the lawsuites, so they just sit on it.

So, what Tom did was a big-cahoonies step. It is disgusting that he had to go through this when the information wasn't correct.

It's also clear from the first message in this thread and others that AGD didn't just sit around reading this forum, they called this guy on the phone and got the facts straight. I think that in doing this they worked out that this was all bull.

For example, in hindsight look at the information in the original thread. From what we know about how the marker works what are the chances that the power tube pin ( or whatever it is called ) and the tip of the bolt sailed 35 yards? Pretty slim. This is much smaller than the barrel ID. Also, when Tom requested that the bolt be sent in this guy said that his friend disgarded it. Now what is the chance of that?

The damage is done though.

My vote would be to release the story. That would ensure that those who have heard about this already get the facts, and those that havn't get to see that doing stuff like this is dumb.

Keith

[irbodden]

For a second, I thought pressuring APG and other paintball magazines to publish an article about this, but we are just bringing this kid more fame. I say drop the issue, and possibly spread the news that there was a misunderstanding.


Another thing, and I am going out on a limb here, did anyone notice all the guys who posted about a "broken" Superbolt, had under 100 posts? I know its not fair to say that a higher post count makes you a more honest person, but why hasn't anyone elses Superbolt cracked? I know Xzion got his at the tour, and thus had one of the first Superbolts, why isn't his broken?

My theory is that the first guys might have broken, and than the rest of the people cried wolf, expecting Tom to ship out a new Superbolt ASAP, and trying to get some free stuff. It *may* not be true, but I don't see why no regulars have had their Superbolts trashed. Infact on the night of the recall, in the chat, everyone was talking about how angry they were. How one guy has put 20k shots on his, and there is hardly a problem, another member commented on how is gun will not be complete with out his Superbolt, and why it was such an amazing upgrade. Before everyone makes up their mind on who's fault it is, we should find out more facts.

[Vegeta]

They should ban him from even touching a computer for like 5 years. Hackers are punished that way if cuaght. They get cuaght touching a computer, even if its for a good reason, boom.. in jail again.

[skipdogg]

Unbelievable

What the heck is wrong with people.
This makes me sick. I feel terrible for AGD and for TOM!

My opinion is that YES the kid has learned his lesson... BUT as part of his punishment he should reimburse AGD for ALL money lost, and personally write a letter to EVERY AO member and apologize!!!!!!!!!!!

[Magsrule3]

fight to the death

On this side of the sup-air field- Mr.Kaye, Rob, BlackVCG, and the rest of the AGD staff. On the dark side-bones. Remember gentlemen the refs will look the other way for you guys if you need to raise your velocity or put your Emags on full auto. But his talon is locked.

[Thordic]

My comments on this issue will remain unsaid because I'm making an effort to behave. I pretty much agree with most people here though.

Webby - If you are talking about Jonathan Lebed, he's not in jail. As a matter of fact, he made out with around $750,000 even after SEC fines.

He lives in my town, used to be friends with my brother, I coached him in baseball for a few years, and his mother works with my parents.