Closed Bolt VS Open

[gc82000]

Hey did you know my spyder was closed bolt?

Wow is it?
I am in shock.
How did you get that?
Last I heard it was open bolt blow back. But what do I know.

[Deep Sixx]

There's no difference. BTW... did you know that ALL markers fire from the closed-bolt position? The position of the bolt before you pull the trigger is irrelevant.

sixx

[Mosfet]

Actually, there is a difference.
Closed bolt markers come with gnomes that help with the accuracy.
Open bolt markers are gnomeless.

DUH!

[Chronobreak]

elves > gnomes

[Wc Keep]

i have one for you guys. whats more accurate a mag barrel or a cocker barrel?

heres my take. i think the twist lock is great, but its not as good as a cocker barrel. the threading on the cocker barrels allow it to move less during the firing process. just my take on it. a friend of mine noticed the same thing when he went from a ss no rise to a ule body.

[Mosfet]

hmm... I might have my fauna mixed around?
Now I'm not sure if they were closed bolt gnomes, closed bolt elves, or closed bolt fairies!


Either way, Open Bolt markers don't have em.

[Steelrat]

I just like the way that closed bolt markers "feel" when they fire.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Another part of it maybe be the timing of it all. With a closed bolt marker, the ball is fired, then everything starts moving. But it is the oppisite with an open bolt. I dont think it adds much, but meh...

[Steelrat]

Whats odd is that closed bolt firearms are generally considered to be more accurate than open bolt ones. I suspect that bullets tend to have much higher tolerances than paintballs, so you can readily observe the advantages of closed bolt firing in that application. Paintballs, and the firing of paintballs, may have too many variables to give closed bolt firing any advantage.

[Mosfet]

This argument is soo old.
Theres been plenty of tests that show that the only reason a closed bolt marker seems to be more accurate than an open bolt marker is the fact that the majority of movement on the marker is done after the firing on a closed bolt, versus before and after on an open bolt.

Clamp both markers down and they are just as accurate.

Its like saying a marker with more kick is less accurate than a marker with no kick at all.
Bolt them both down and see what happens.

[LeatherPants]

Here's my input.

I've owned 6 cockers. The last couple E Blades. This is one this that you guys need to consider.

We all know that at rest a cocker chambers a ball past the detents just sitting in the barrel. Now we also know that this is the reason why lots of people experience the first ball rolling out of the barrel if the match is not correct.

Many times in between shooting a ball is chambered and "pushed" forward and many times away from the bolt even as far as half way up the barrel. When this happens the next shot is a low shot. Since the ball is not against the bolt it does not get the initial full blast of air.

Now all markers load the ball forward and all can "push" a ball down the barrel but the difference is that on open bolt markers when the bolt goes forward the marker fires at the same time.

On a cocker bolt goes back, bolt goes forward, then the marker fires when the hammer is released. That spilt second can allow the ball to roll forward.

Now on E Blades or Race frames the load time and firing time is shorter which honestly makes it closer to an open bolt. The only real "closed bolt" shot is the first shot on a Cocker.

Ok no idea what I just said...rant.

[White_Noise]

"On a cocker bolt goes back, bolt goes forward, then the marker fires when the hammer is released. That spilt second can allow the ball to roll forward.

Now on E Blades or Race frames the load time and firing time is shorter which honestly makes it closer to an open bolt. The only real "closed bolt" shot is the first shot on a Cocker. "


incorrect...when an autococker is cocked and has a ball in the breech, the bolt is in the forward position, when the trigger is pulled, the valve opens, and air pushes the ball out the barrel. then air is redirected into pushing the bolt back, a ball enters the breech and the bolt closes in the forward position again.

on an open bolt marker, say a spyder, the bolt is in the back position when it is cocked and ready to fire. when the trigger is pulled, it releases the hammer and bolt at the same time. as the bolt moves forward, air begins to come out of the bolt and pushes the ball down the barrel. once the bolt is fully forward, air pushes back on the hammer and recocks the marker.

[1ofkind]

I saw it all has to do with e barrel's inner surface. It its anything really smooth you'll get straight shots. Try it and you'll see

[magmanl337]

Can i just get 5 ppl to say that im right, so i dont ahve to buy derek pizza on sat?!?!?!!?


Save mE!!!!!

[Evil Bob]

Sorry magman, you're buying pizza.

The whole closed bolt/open bolt debate only applies to the first round out of the barrel, once you go into rapid fire it doesn't matter one bit which system you're using, as the ball never has any time to actually come to rest before it's fired out the barrel.

In the world of real weapons, closed bolt rifles are more accurate at long range shooting due to the fact that the chambering process affects the point of aim as it slams forward and loads the first round. Most of your open bolt firearms are squad automatic weapons designed to spray and pray (m60, m240, mg40/42, etc.). Take an m16, which fires from closed bolt, and put it into full auto and you'll have a real hard time trying to hit a human sized target at 300 meters.

This also applies to paintball but on a lesser degree (vastly scaled down) since paintballs are fairly inaccurate by their design (light weight, deformable surface, etc.) in the first place.

Again, this is only on a single shot basis. The more stuff you have slamming back and forth inside your marker rapidly, the more your point of aim will be affected. It comes down to weight and mass and basic physics. Extremely light weight markers suffer the most from reciprical operation which results in the marker bouncing back and forth as the hammer/bolt group slams back and forth in the firing operation, that very same action is used by many folks to sweet spot their triggers, ie "bounce", you pull the trigger and keep it in the same location and let the marker do the rest. This type of bounce will affect your point of aim, add to that the inaccuracies with the paintball itself... accuracy through volume.

-Evil Bob