Dirty Dan's "The Different Diameter Conspiracy"

[RTDynaflow]

Some good posts here...

I want to bring up a test that Warpig did... You would think that the better consistency over the chrono would result in a tighter grouping? They tested this theory and it is somewhat flawed. They back that had the best chrono consistency (+/- 1), did not have the best grouping. This, btw, was one of the smaller backs. The best paint to barrel match did. It was like +/- 3 over the chrono. Wish I could find that article. Although I am unsure of how many times this was repeated. So, this could just be a fluke.

Anyway, thought I would bring that up.

Depends on the paint you play with... Although I didn't have some form of scientificaly finding the exact size, I have seen paint that 90% or so tested through on the same bore sizer. Anyway, I still believe that in the accuracy area, the difference of going up or down a size (from the ideal size), does not make a great enough difference to warrant the big deal some people place on it. We don't have scopes on our guns (don't take this literaly), short of FSDO, I don't see accuracy that big a deal in the tourny area. 5" on 1 ball won't make a difference. Especially when you have another 21 following that...

my .02

[JimmyBeam]

Sounds like a plan.

I've matched paint and the only thing it did was cause more barrel breaks...

Time to buy a CP 1 peice at .693 bore...

!

ya i used to match, then i figured out that if i just use my .692 Evil back every week, it works just fine. i havent tried to match in a while, i dont see the point anymore

[CoolHand]

Does paint to barrel match effect accuracy?

Maybe, but I don't care.

Does it effect efficiency?

Most likely . . . . but I don't care.

Does it effect barrel breaks?

Most certainly . . . This, I care about.

Will a tiny ball roll out of a big barrel on a cocker or a pump?

Yup . . . . but I don't care. (If I did, I could just tip the barrel back though.)

I use huge bore barrels with whatever paint I find. Why? I hate squeegies. Plain and Simple. Barrel breaks suck. Can I still hit the tip of a 60' flag pole from a hundred feet (you can do the trig on that one) with my FreeFlow and its .693 boomer (even with teeny tiny paint)? Yup. Why? Dunno. Maybe I'm just that good (prolly not, but . . . . ). Maybe it makes no difference. I don't care.

Rant

[Darkstorm]

Yes and No

I agree that 'hype' is part of any market, but at the same time diameter does matter due to the realities of manufacturing/on field effects.

Let me state this clearly 'from my expreience' the biggest problem is variation in the paint size within the same box.

This causes problems when on AVERAGE the paint that is too small or too large for a barrel. With too small the velocity fluxuates, and with too big it barrel breaks. Both have effects on accuracy.

When the barrel is too big I have seen fluxuations of up to 15fps. When the barrel is too small, I will break at least one ball out of every hoper. Further, because I play scenario, I have been in plenty of games that are a bit "damp".

That said, I am also certain that someone who invents a better paintball shell would be respected. (Notice, I did not say make money).

[shartley]

[Bad_Dog]

sooooooooo if I have my freak and isert matched to lets say diablo blaze... and I go test it on the range...

then I go and swap barrels to my 2in diameter Nerf football shooter (2.0 caliber)... go test that out with the same paint... you're telling me that I'll have the same accuracy??

I agree with what Shartly said... but a good read none the less....

[tyrion2323]

Dan is wrong about this. let's put this to rest already.

[vonort]

No my good sir YOU are wrong. DD has hit it on the head. Only reason I use a kit is when I'm using a closed bolt marker to prevent roll outs. With my blowbacks I use a large bore barrel and have no problems. So I do agree.. lets put this to rest. Barrel kits, Multi bore barrels are all hype created by the industry to get you to accept there lack in consistency in manufacturing.

[SlartyBartFast]

Dan is wrong about this. let's put this to rest already.

Really? I think the only conspiracy is the average paintballer's stupidity and desire to be parted from gobs of cash.

Why spend 150+ for barrel kits when all you really need is MAYBE two or three barrels is you want to match paint. Small, Medium, Large. A really good decent barrel, for which you aren't paying for hype, should be about $30 tops. J&J or LAPCO fit the bill.

The only reason manufacturers have different sizes is they use different molds and machines, or dry the balls more/less before shipping.

Temperature, humidity, and age add variability to the size and roundness of balls in a box/bag or hopper. I'd wager that the variability of the paintballs is a magnitude larger than the divisions on the stupid inserts and backs.

But what do I know. I'd rather spend my money on paint and practice to improve my skills than a shiney excuse for why I can't hit the side of a barn.

Unlike a performance/skill sport like firearm shooting, cycling, or swimming, or racing, there isn't a paintball player on the planet that can benefit from the infintessimal increase in performance that a perfect match would provide. And the effect on the ball once it leaves the barrel completely negates any accuracy gains anyways.

So that only leaves efficiency/shots per tank. But if you have all-day air and don't run dry in a game, who cares?

[SlartyBartFast]

Multi bore barrels are all hype created by the industry to get you to accept there lack in consistency in manufacturing.

That's laughable. It might be an argument if we were all shooting Perfect Circle paintballs or the ammo for the FN303.

Geletin and manufacturing consistency WILL NEVER appear together.

You the player have a larger derimental effect on the inconsistency in paintballs by not keeping them at consistent temperatures and humdity. Now if you want to install a climate control system on your hopper, be my guest.

[Bad_Dog]

so if the size of the barrel doesnt matter then why do we use them...

if the ball doesnt touch the barrel at all (lets say the bore is in excess of an inch) then why is the barrel even there???


I know as a fact that the barrel does have some influence... more than what Dan has posted... otherwise anyone whos shot a few balls through thier marker without a barrel would understand what I'm talking about.

[trains are bad]

I use the smallest size in my kit that the paint still drops through without getting stuck. This is a good test and keeps my velocity consistent and efficiency high. I do not belive going for a blow test match improves accuracy and in fact I take it as a disadvantage to autocockers that you have to use a tight match to prevent roll outs. All it has ever done for me is insure that that odd oversize ball in the case blows up in the barrel.

[Tyril]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that yes, it makes a difference, but not by as much as the companies want you to think

The difference between a .689 and a .688 is so incredibly small as to be negligable. Even in the best of paint, the ball-to-ball variation is going to be greater than .001, that is simply a fact of the industry that needs to be accepted.

What I want is to see someone with a pair of calipers and a lot of patience to size 20 or 30 balls from several different bags of different brands of paint, and different runs of the same paint. The results could be interesting.

I bet that if one were to have two or three barrels they could change out depending on local conditions, they would do just as well as one with a full kit.


What do I use? A blazer barrel. What size? Who knows? It's relitively large, gets larger in the middle, and in the four cases I've put through it, I've never broken one in the barrel. That matters to me a great deal more than an extra pod either way in efficiency.

-mike

[SlartyBartFast]

otherwise anyone whos shot a few balls through thier marker without a barrel would understand what I'm talking about.

Well, no one's claiming the barrel does nothing. But after .695/.689, and stopping balls from rolling freely out the end, what is gained by making the fit tighter? And is it worth the effort to match and the cost to have the overpriced insert kits?

[SeeK]

Well, no one's claiming the barrel does nothing. But after .695/.689, and stopping balls from rolling freely out the end, what is gained by making the fit tighter? And is it worth the effort to match and the cost to have the overpriced insert kits?

Efficency aside, isn't the ball detent supposed to keep the balls from rolling out?