Confirmed: Shockers available with "rebound" feature

[50 cal]

Another feature for some bonehead to abuse.

[Glickman]

Another feature for some bonehead to abuse.

well, from what i see, its safer then a "non-regulated" bounce, such as a shocker without the programming, or a viking, or anything else for that matter.

not saying its safe, but its safer than non-regulated bounce

"ok im not trying to call anyone a wuss or say being overshot is ok, but as a tournament player ive gotten used to"


recballers seem to have a problem with this, while most tourny players dont.

ive been bunkered with 5-6 balls, and in all truthfulness, i didnt feel it. it was my first tourntament, and ive never had such adrenalin, i didnt really feel any shots that day
(dont get me wrong either, im not thick skinned, 100 lbs 5'5")

[Miscue]

Very few, people are achieving 20bps in play, even with cheater boards. I don't care what your LCD/Red Chrono/mom with a stop watch says, it's BS.

Hurm...

[RTDynaflow]

May I suggest you guys go back and read the post that quoted me... I was hit with around 13 or so balls, starting at the mid neck going up to the bottom section of my head. Do something... run two fingers up the back of your neck. Following me some far? You will notice a little spot where your skull starts... take your fingers and slam them into the back of your head right below there.... now do it on the top of your head. See a difference?

And as far as the the .1 perception time. ... Ok, I agree. However my reaction time is .251. That is at my fastest. Knowing I was about to interact with soemthing. It takes me 0.251 of a between when I see a color on my monitor and I click my mouse. Now, translate that into someone not expecting it and the movement from a finger click to your entire body/head section by a foot. You are geting closer to 1+ seconds. Saying that people won't get hit in the head more then 3+ balls, when you have a string of 15 balls come from close range is so far from obsurd it sickens me. Didn't Chris Lasoya put someone in the hospital from a bouncing timmy? What was it 10+ balls to the head? How can anyone sit here and argue you won't get hit 10+ times... If you can, obviously you are delusional. I was. Hit 10+ times that is. Delusional as well - after passing out from that.

Like I said in the previous thread about this - Limiting the markers is not what will stop injuries, limiting bounce, ramp and FA will. The NXL rule is great in the aspect it limits BPS. However, it is completely useless, it allows FA and this will cause more injuries then any ridiculous semi ROF.

Whatever happened to the "black box" idea miscue? Honestly if you could pitch that to the NPPL in a way it wouldn't hinder the game, it could have some amazing results.

"ok im not trying to call anyone a wuss or say being overshot is ok, but as a tournament player ive gotten used to"


recballers seem to have a problem with this, while most tourny players dont.

ive been bunkered with 5-6 balls, and in all truthfulness, i didnt feel it. it was my first tourntament, and ive never had such adrenalin, i didnt really feel any shots that day
(dont get me wrong either, im not thick skinned, 100 lbs 5'5")

You are forgetting something. Recballers often are only wearing a thin T shirt, usually without long sleeves. Just a mask, no beenie, or cap. Tourny players... Well usually, you have a regular white T, then a jersey on top. You have thick baggy pants and a baseballcap/some kind of head protection that goes down to the back of the neck. Gloves on, though with two fingers cut off (so we can try and obtain a slightly higher rof..), still offer a good deal of wrist and hand protection. <---- your thick skin. Go and get bunkered with 6 shots on your bare back. Come back and tell me you didn't feel it.

Electros that spike velocity... I would enjoy to kick the persons *** who decided to try this... I would assume you mean it sets the dwell down to 1 millisecond to chrono, then increases it back to 6 or 8? This is far worse then the BPS issue. This could cause serious injury with only one ball.

RTD

[ghideon]

In college I took one round (from a distance) to the back of the head. This was on a Saturday. That night, I started getting dizzy. On Sunday morning I sat up in my bed and the whole room starting spinning (it sucked, bad). The flight doc told me it was a slight concussion, I had no LOC.

I was a freshman at a military service academy at the time. I couldn't walk down the hall at attention in a straight line (caught some flak for that). Ended up putting me on a clear liquid diet (was so dizzy could hardly hold anything down), and putting my butt on bed rest for a day.

A year after that I would get dizziness/headaches every now and then. This was about seven years ago, and luckily I haven't had a problem since.

This was in 1997. We should have had full head protection awhile ago.

[CoolHand]

OK, I want someone to explain to me how a ramping (or rebound) board that essentially goes full auto when you reach X bps is more dangerous than a marker with a semi only board that's set up to bounce (either through low debounce settings, or just a wonky microswitch, trigger inertia, etc.).

Before the SP board starts to ramp (even on rebound 5, the highest setting), you have to reach 7bps. Now, I'm no NPPL back man, but that would be pretty hard for me to do with a single finger (and I've never seen anyone walking the trigger while bunkering someone ).

Here's how I see it:

Mad uncontrolable bounce = bad
Rebound, Ramp, NXL FA, etc with a BPS limit (that is actually enforced) = better
Uncapped semi auto ROF by any means ('cause we're back to the bounce again) = bad
Capped Semi Only (that's actually enforced) = best

Here's how I see it. I would much rather see someone hold the trigger down after four shots and get FA at 15 bps that actually stops when they release the trigger, verses the wild bouncing marker that may shoot 30 or 40 times all by itself if the mood takes it. Both will allow most anyone to attain stupid rates of fire easily, but the former is many orders of magnitude easier to control than the latter.

Personally, I don't care if players use rebound, FA, etc. All I care about is that the marker stops shooting when they stop pulling the trigger.

The rest is up to them.

Also, on a side note, I think the human body can be conditioned to sustain impact and survive unscathed (to a certain point). I have raced stock cars for going on a decade now, and in that time, I have had my fair share of impacts at >60mph (which is a damned hard hit). Paintballs just sorta sting for me. I bleed on occasion, especially if I get hit on the soft part under my arms. I have taken many many head shots (including a nice group of ten to the same spot that leveled that other fellow), temple shots, throat shots, most of them while reffing, and short of some really wild hair (comliments of the Diablo hair gel), I suffered no ill effects (besides a welt). Does this mean I'm superman? I doubt that. (you would too, if you've ever seen me. ) I think its due to the fact that I am used to taking hard core impacts, so my brain is used to running into my skull. (maybe its got a callus built up. ) Whatever the reason, I think that injury is much more dependent on the person than the rules or the equipment.

Bottom line, if you turn the game down so that no one could ever get injured by a paintball impact, I think what we'll be left with will closely resemble something already marketed by Hasbro . . . . . . under the Nerf brand name.

[Beemer]

ok

I think that injury is much more dependent on the person than the rules or the equipment.

Ya ok. Then take away your 3 point seat harness, rollbar and fullface helmet when you race.
What about that special neck brace the indy guys wear now. Will they let you race with an open face helmet.

Bottom line, if you turn the game down so that no one could ever get injured by a paintball impact, I think what we'll be left with will closely resemble something already marketed by Hasbro . . . . . . under the Nerf brand name.

Who said turn it down. We just need the safety gear to keep up just like it has in every other sports gear. And the standards to be followed that are put down

[teufelhunden]

Ya ok. Then take away your 3 point seat harness, rollbar and fullface helmet when you race.
What about that special neck brace the indy guys wear now. Will they let you race with an open face helmet.





Who said turn it down. We just need the safety gear to keep up just like it has in every other sports gear. And the standards to be followed that are put down

I hope he's wearing a 5 point harness..

But that's beside the point. Because your body still slams into the harness, your head still slams into the seat.. it's not like he's coushined in a pillow of down feathers.

[CoolHand]

Ya ok. Then take away your 3 point seat harness, rollbar and fullface helmet when you race.
What about that special neck brace the indy guys wear now. Will they let you race with an open face helmet.

Yes we can run an open face if we want (although on the dirt, I'd advise againt it), and I don't wear a neck roll.

Touche' on the seat belts, perhaps I should have been more specific.

Racers get killed every year, wearing the exact same suit, helmet, and belts that I use. They are what I would consider the minimum amount of safety gear, as you all would consider a mask and goggles to be the minimum amount of PB safety gear.

What I am saying is that some people are just more susceptable to injury than others, no matter how much you pad yourself, or how good your belts are, or whatever. That's what I am saying. That changing the rules to make the markers slower, or whatever is not the solution (just like changing the rules to make race cars slower doesn't keep people from getting killed).

You can make the head gear better all you want (and you should, don't get me wrong), but some people are still going to get hurt. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much risk is too much. Personally, I worry about the way people treat their pressure vessels more than my goggles breaking, or getting shot 47 times in the mellon.

This is whole discussion is kinda academic at this point anyway.

In reality, if you don't like FA or Ramping or whateve, don't use it (its your choice). If they use it where you play, and you don't like it, go play somewhere else. Its a free country, and if the field owner (the guy who defines the limits) says its OK, then its your choice to either play like they do, play the way you want to with them, or take your business elsewhere. There is no reason that you (the offended party) need to campagain to change the rules at that local, you just need to find someplace that jives with how you want to play.

But that's just my zeal for personal freedoms rearing it ugly head. I don't think that the interests of the one should be able to overide the interests of the many, when the issue is not a matter of life and death.

As always, your mileage may vary.

[RTDynaflow]

^^^^^ [edit] this is to beamer post..
agree 100%.

Well, usually it is a 5 point harness.. but anyway. It really isn't something of conditioning. It is more of how different things affect people differently. Also, exact spot where something hits. Your helmet has padding and lots of it. The impact isn't nearly as direct a force as a paintball. If a paintball is to hit you in the right place on the back of the neck/head area it can and will cause some rather serious injuries. No matter how many hits that spot takes and how many concussions you get, I don't think your spine or brain is going to develop a special "cushion" for this. If anything, it will get worse every time.

I would love to hear a doctors standpoint on this. Seriously, someone who went to school for 16 years. A brain surgeon possibly. What would one say about blunt force trauma? And paintball in general. This would be quite interesting, and most irefutable by one of us non doctor type...

RTD

[CoolHand]

. . . .I don't think your spine or brain is going to develop a special "cushion" for this. If anything, it will get worse every time.. . . . . RTD

Seriously, am I going to have to start outlining all my jokes with [joke] [/joke] markers?

That crack about the callus was a joke. Successive concussions get progressively worse, and harder to get over as you go. (this is medical fact, but I'm not a doctor . . . . however, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express . . . . . )

This is going no where, and my point (I'm pretty sure I had one ) has been lost in all the back and forth. I'm not gonna go try to dig it out.

Have a good discussion guys.

[RTDynaflow]

Seriously, am I going to have to start outlining all my jokes with [joke] [/joke] markers?

That crack about the callus was a joke. Successive concussions get progressively worse, and harder to get over as you go. (this is medical fact, but I'm not a doctor . . . . however, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express . . . . . )

This is going no where, and my point (I'm pretty sure I had one ) has been lost in all the back and forth. I'm not gonna go try to dig it out.

Have a good discussion guys.

LOL I know. I need to do the same, as you missed my jjoke about your joke... I think we are all in a fairly well agreement that we need some better safety equipment and regulations. Just to what degree is where everyone is arguing.

RTD

[Lohman446]

Ok.. here are your options, because at my field the rule is not no bounce. IT is if you are closer than 20 feet and hit (and break) a single player who is not making an agressive act more then 4 times he is still in and you are out. Bounce is legal, you have to be able to control it.

Four shots adn then insane is perfect for me - or seven. And its not hard to achieve on the Shocker trigger