WARNING to everyone! M.A.X. cannot anodize Automags. (Please Read)

[Empyreal Rogue]

Both Tuna and Brad have offered to look at it. I would do the same but its obvious you have convinced yourself it can't be fixed. I think it can. So far you have not put it in the hands of a competent tech to do that.... I suggest you do so. Its possible it needs a On Off pin specialy made for it. Thats about all.... Your method of testing it was flawed. You are skiping several things.

And it is Possible to over polish one and do this. But its possible that someone that knows what there doing can compensate for that.

No, I'm going to do something. Fireblade actually asked me first in a PM and I needed to send some stuff to him anyway.

[daviselk]

i hope it gets settleed out man! good luck

Edit:/ after posting i wondered if i had 100 posts yet.. thought i had like 50.. guess not! ha!

[hitech]

Did you contact them first before "trashing" them here? "Trashing" them here is a bad idea before contacting them. I had a problem with something I sent to someone here on AO. However, BEFORE trashing them I contacted them about making it right. Guess what, they DID! And they paid for shipping BOTH ways. Cost me NOTHING extra. Had I complained here first I doubt they would have been so accommodating. And why should they. You're trashing their reputation here.

You should have contacted them first.

[ScatterPlot]

You said that it doesn't work. Exactly WHAT will it not do EXACTLY? You might have already said it but I could've missed it.

[Empyreal Rogue]

It just doesn't work. It leaks like crazy out of the front and wouldn't cycle. The sear never came forward far enough to allow me to fire once. It did that on all 3 valves and all three had nearly perfectly tuned LXs with the smallest spring. I'm guessing I might need a custom On/Off pin like someone had suggested.

UThomas, I put it back together. And on the AO Day Ho and I put it back together again. I highly doubt it was a user error, though it's possible I could be wrong.

hitech, if trashing them also includes praising their work and customer service then I think you -may- want to re-think my intentions and your definition of "trashing". First off before I said ANYTHING I stated how excellent of a company they were. In fact, I stated that several times. I said they did a superb job and their customer service was above and beyond. 180 dollars for an anodizing of this quality in 3 weeks and free shipping was more than what I bargained for. I simply stated when it comes to Automags they don't have the knowledge that Tuna or WW have, or even Fireblade, when it comes to Automags.

[hitech]

It just doesn't work...I simply stated when it comes to Automags they don't have the knowledge that Tuna or WW have, or even Fireblade, when it comes to Automags.

Even with all the other good thing you said about them, YES, I would consider this "trashing" them. You still should have called them first. They might have sent it to someone to fix for you. The work closely with a Brad; maybe they would have sent it to him. Maybe not, but you never gave them the chance to make it right. And you are basically telling people to not send them a 'mag without giving them the chance to fix a possible mistake. I don't think you should do that.

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

everyone keeps saying ANO being too thick, anodizing is not like powdercoating of painting... if anything it they could have left the parts in the deanodizing soulution too long and it ate away at the metal too much but u cant have anodizing that is TOO THICK...

[FragTek]

everyone keeps saying ANO being too thick, anodizing is not like powdercoating of painting... if anything it they could have left the parts in the deanodizing soulution too long and it ate away at the metal too much but u cant have anodizing that is TOO THICK...

Did he really just say "you cant have anodizing that is too thick" ? Sorry to burst el bubble, but yes, an ano CAN be to thick.

[ScatterPlot]

It just doesn't work. It leaks like crazy out of the front and wouldn't cycle. The sear never came forward far enough to allow me to fire once. It did that on all 3 valves and all three had nearly perfectly tuned LXs with the smallest spring. I'm guessing I might need a custom On/Off pin like someone had suggested.

Did you try shoving a squeegee into the barrel to reset the bolt? I'm a little confused as to what the sear coming foreward means. Do you mean holding the bolt back or what?

[Empyreal Rogue]

The sear pin. The little tip that the trigger hits to release the bolt. That never came forward.

[ScatterPlot]

Oh, gotcha. If it hasn't been like welded in place like some people do (ok not weld but some glue) you might try lengthening it. But then again if you reset the bolt manually then it might come far enough foreward to get one shot off.

[rx2]

This is rather odd. I have had two different rails that are way out of tolerance, and they still work perfectly. One was built up to the point that the sear had to be pounded into the rail, and the other was stripped down so much that the sear would wobble around, and would also fall out when the rail was tipped upside down. I suspect that whomever you sent it to will be able to figure something out.

By the way, some people are confused about the types of anno. In a nutshell (and this is a really simplified breakdown), there are two basic ways to get your metal colored. There is a process by which a plating is applied first, and then this plate is stained, thus building up (typically a nickel based plate, which can chip). The traditional method, on the other hand, etches and oxidizes the metal, and the color is stained into this surface. This way removes a slight bit of metal. Both are generically referred to as anno, and both affect tolerances in opposite ways.

[ScatterPlot]

I'm pretty sure that normal anno will cause slight part growth... taken from here:

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html

Aluminum oxide is grown out of the surface during anodizing and then becomes aluminum hydrate that is extremely hard. The porous nature of the anodized layer allows the product to be dyed any color that is required. The method I describe is Type II anodizing (room temperature) and gives an anodized layer of .0002" to .001" (half which is grown into the surface and half out of the surface). Parts anodized will become slightly larger by about .0005"

Now that's not a lot, but it's not shrinking either...

[CoolHand]

The ano layer is "grown" out of the host metal. Usually 2/3 of the layer thickness goes out, 1/3 goes in. That's the general rule of thumb.

Ano can get quite thick, but not type three (sulfuric bath ano). A layer of type three ano that is 0.002" thick would be huge, gargantuine even. Type two ano (also known as "hard cote") can get really thick. Standard thicknesses start at about 0.003" IIRC.

Most tolerance changes associated with ano (or in this case re-ano) are caused by removing too much base metal with the old ano layer (a la left it in the stripping bath too long), rather than building up too much oxide. The ano will stop eventually (or rather reach an equilibrium point). The acid bath eats the ano layer, while the electricity running through the circuit drives the reaction to grow more ano. At first, the conductivity of the part is high, so the growth far outpaces the dissolution. However, the thicker the layer gets, the higher the resistance gets, and the less current is able to pass through the part. Thusly the growth of the oxide layer slows, and the dissolution rate remains the same. Eventually the growth rate will far under pace the dissolution rate, and the layer will actually start to get thinner.

What all that crap means is that there is a maximum possible thickness that is attainable with a given amperage (or current density) when dealing with a type three ano process.

At any rate, all that ano process stuff aside, I have personally tested the theory that mags can't take reano. I absolutely destroyed a Classic rail to test this. We stripped and reanoed this rail fifteen (15) times. After every time, we reassembled this marker and tested it for function. Not once did it fail to work correctly. The rear rail busing hole had enlarged from an original diameter of 0.25" to a new diameter of ~0.290" (it was a little bit less than round when we got done), effectively taking this rail 0.040" out of spec (it is fairly reasonable to assume that all the other holes would have been effected similarly), with no ill results (that I could find). Now, this was with a Classic rail, MM body, and Classic valve. I did find that when I went to put a ULT in the Classic, it had to have a bunch more shims to work correctly (after tuning the valve in a stock RTP rail).

My guess is that you just need to make some adjustments to get it running right again.

BTW, just out of curiousity, did you remember to put the steel washer and cir-clip back in? I've seen guys forget that when they put a body back together.

Hope you get is solved. Jeremy at MAX is a stand-up guy, he'll make sure you get taken care of.

[zeroack]

Maxx Anno...

MAxx anno has had my mag parts twice now. I'm very very worried about how things will work now. When it frist got back from Maxx it was aweful. Some parts had not been stripped completely, some parts hadn't been annoed well, some parts hadn't been polished right. On top of that they charged about $120 more then they had originally quoted. This was on a single color grey polished anno job. Nothing fancy. It went back. I've yet to see it and that was over four months ago.

Parts they have....
Rogue Feedneck
Rogue Foregrip
Logic rail
Logic vert frame
ule body
JandJ edge tip
Data Pimp quick release

To make things worse I know other customers that have had things come from maxx over polished. They made a Sterling into a paper weight.

I'll repost when I get my parts which should be here soon I hope.

Zero