Is there an advantage to cheating at paintball?

[Tyger]

Yes, this is still a "Tyger is injured and has WAY too much freaking time on his hands" post. It sucks, but back surgery does that to you, ya know. And since I can't play yet, I'm spending time thinking about the rules, and such.

So, on to the arguing.

The poll I asked last week I found interesting. Over 50% of the people who voted said they would rather a cheater admit they were cheating. Granted, I forgot to add the "punish cheaters yourself" option, but I still found that interesting over the "Whine complain and moan" option and the "Ignore it and it might go away" option.

This leads me to another question, however. Is there a distinct advantage to cheating? I'm not talking ethics here, I'm talking RAW advantage. When you look at it from a STRICT risk/reward perspective, are there more "rewards" than "risks" when it comes to cheating in paintball? (Is a 1-for-1 really going to offset a player wiping a hit and taking out 3 opponents, for example?)

I'm not asking who cheats, or what the cheats are, I'm asking if the punishments for cheating offset the reward gained from breaking the rules. And don't give me the "Well the refs need to be better" excuse either, becasue we all know that "all refs suck", except when you win a tournament in which case the reffing was awesome. This isn't about enforcement, it's about the risks and rewards of breaking the rules in general.

Sorry to over explain it, but I would rather this be a discussion on topic than a cryfest of who "Cheated on my team". I just want opinions from people on this.

-Tyger

[tony3]

wiping is a 3 for 1, playing on is a 1 for 1. In xball I believe it a major 5 minute penalty for wiping. People make such a big deal about wiping, when it really isn't a big deal. If leagues really thought it was a such a big problem they could make the consquences so bad no one would ever cheat, but they don't see it as a huge problem, so they don't. They could make the penalty for wiping automatic loss of the game or even DQ from the tourney.

[justjoshin590]

well i have an idea, when you cheat you learn nothing from your mistake,
say you get hit and wipe, getting hit would most likely mean you have a weakness, now if you just wipe that hit, and even if you make a mental note to be more carefull in some way, odds are youll still have the same problem later

so in cheating, you learn nothing, and dont advance as a player

[tony3]

Tell that to a pro player and he will just laugh at you.

[punkncat]

Aside from the morality issues and whatnot...

Yes I definately think there is an advantage in cheating well. If you are getting caught then you aren't doing it well. If you pull it off w/o getting caught , its definately an advantage to play on after you should be eliminated.

[XSSPL]

well i have an idea, when you cheat you learn nothing from your mistake,
say you get hit and wipe, getting hit would most likely mean you have a weakness, now if you just wipe that hit, and even if you make a mental note to be more carefull in some way, odds are youll still have the same problem later

so in cheating, you learn nothing, and dont advance as a player

well put. I agree with that totally. You were hit because you let your game slip... rather than wiping, be a man, call yrself out and learn from it.

As to the question at hand - the "risk vs reward" factor... yeah sure, if you get away with it and are able to eliminate some opponents - there's the reward, but you will always walk away know that you didn't deserve the results.

If you are caught, then you also deserve all the consequences that come along with it - such as a big *** mental target painted all over you in the minds of the opposing team and the refs.

[justjoshin590]

ehhe, well i know in a touney their a bit more interested in winning then growing as a player, after all for most thats what training is for

but still what i said stands, some people might just be more interested in winning then learning

i dont think people that can just wipe and not care about it are very good people at all...
if that means i am calling a lot of pro players bad people, then yes they are

and i think if we want paintball to advance as a sport, cause lets face it, a couple of tv spots on channels only some people watch isnt as good as it gets, then cheating needs to be a heavily punished offense, as in automatic loss

[HoppysMag]

id say if you cheat and are caught, you lose. that simple. but thats why i dont play cheater ball... errr uh tourney

[Won Hunglo]

Cheating is great for paintball fields! When someone wipes they stay in the game longer & use/buy more paint.

"It you ain't cheating you ain't trying."

[justjoshin590]

Cheating is great for paintball fields! When someone wipes they stay in the game longer & use/buy more paint.

"It you ain't cheating you ain't trying."

as for that i think that fields should have to charge much closer to what they buy it for, as in maybe a 5$ profit per case, theyed be less inclined to let people cheat, if that means higher admisions, who cares, i pay more for paint then i ever have for field entree...

[HoppysMag]

as for that i think that fields should have to charge much closer to what they buy it for, as in maybe a 5$ profit per case, theyed be less inclined to let people cheat, if that means higher admisions, who cares, i pay more for paint then i ever have for field entree...

because not everyone plays like that. why should i have tp pay a higher field fee so you can get a discount on paint? it doesnt help me because i dont shoot 2 cases in a day

[justjoshin590]

well neither do i, im just saying it might be easier to put caps on paint prices, cause fields sometimes charge double (not sure excately) if not more for paint, so i think if they didnt make as much money off of it, they might be less inclined to allow cheating, and how much do you think prices would really go up? i pay 10$ for admision and 60$ per case for good paint

[MonsterMag]

if you cheat you loose , people should play fair and not cheat

[Tyger]

...i think if they didnt make as much money off of it, they might be less inclined to allow cheating

That's an interesting theory, that fields encourage cheating to increase profits? Sort of the same thing at tournaments and big games too, that wipers / cheaters buy more paint? So it's a bennefit to the field owner to encourage cheating behavior, or at the very least not crack down on it?

I never quite thought of it that way before....

-Tyger

[RONIN01]

The Nature of Cheating

Cheating has been around since humans competed in sport for the very first time. There are records at the ancient Greek site of Olympia that discuss the penalties for cheating. Even the loss of limb or even life in ancient times wasn't enough to stop cheating, so harsher penalties imposed in the modern era certainly won't stop cheating either.

All modern sports, professional and otherwise, have cheating. If they have been around for awhile, cheating is a part of the game. I can remember my basketball coach telling me in high school to defend post up players by putting a forearm in their back and when they turned to shoot, push them slightly. This was a difficult foul for the refs to detect, and it effectively threw the shot off target. This philosophy is accepted by coaches across the board. See what the referees are calling, get away with what you can.

Paintball is headed in the same direction. For better or for worse, cheating is becoming an intergral part of the game. In an environment where almost every team is cheating to some degree, imposing very harsh penalties will only take the final results out of the hands of the players and give them to the referees. The best thing for paintball is to accept the fact that cheating will ALWAYS be around, and set up rules and train referees so that the impact of cheating does not determine the final outcome of the game.