The last of the "cheating" q's, "So do you want to change?"

[Tyger]

I want to point out that this is not just a tournament problem, it's a paintball probelm. I mean, I go to a local field and see kids who have played about a year or so who think it's cool to wipe hits at an indoor field on a Saturday night. I ask a friend "Is that guy cheating?" And I am told "Yeah, really poorly too." That and I hear "Bunker lovin'" used as a term at rec games... Tells me it's not all one sided.

So this isn't JUST a tournament mindset, it's a paintball one. Which is why I'm asking if it CAN change, or even if we want it to change.

-Tyger

[frop]

Maybe we need to start a Cheater's Anonymous for paintball

[68magOwner]

id like it to be more honest, and, think it can be inforced with stricter penalties, the penalties now are slack, if you get caught wiping, you should be thrown out of the tourney, get cought obvioulsy playing on, no points for that round, in rec ball.....i suppose theres not as much you can do

[Meph]

So this brings the ultimate question : Do you want to change the current culture of cheating in the game / sport of paintball? Or I guess more correctly, do you think the culture CAN change?

Would I like to see cheating change to being something on the rare occasion, from what it is now a daily maneuver like moving to the next bunker... or snap shooting! Absolutely. Cheating should not be what it right now is.

However the problem is that 'can the culture change' I honestly think not. This is one of those it's going to get worse before it gets better situations. It is accepted and taken as part of the 'norm' as if it's the equivalent to an accidental offsides in football!

[nastymag]

right now at the field i play cheating isnt really that huge in rec. i really just see if fields enforce and refs do there job it will be cool. everyone is there to have fun, there arent very many refs . so everyone should play honest.

Tourny play.
you know what , i do it ... lot of people do it. it has become part of the game.
nothing we could do to keep from becoming that. huge prizes and fame involved , no matter what sport or game people will try to do it. i consider in tourny play wiping , kinda like playing the gray. like a foul in basketball or any other sport. we know the penalties , its our choice if we want to do it. as long as the refs are good, wiping really doesnt happen that much. playing on and cheating guns do. i say have a 1 for 1 if cought wiping and a point penalty.
i am much more concerned about ramping guns.

[Xyxyll]

I think it IS possible, but it will be very difficult, and will be a LONG road. New players are coming into the game and realizing not only how cheating is the thing to do, but how easy it really is to get away with. What needs to happen is to have ridiculously extreme consequences of cheating. All of the players need to know that cheating is NOT acceptable and to play the game with character and fairness. You're really only cheating yourself if you cheat. That trophy wasn't really earned by you, it was cheated and stolen.

[50 cal]

I'm sure all of us would like cheating to end. But that is a pipe dream I'm afraid. Too many people with the win at all costs mentality. They don't care about the consequences of how they got there.
Rec is just as bad. We take care of rec cheaters by just shunning them. It works, a known cheater that is outcast has nowhere to go. We had a rec team that would show up at a field that I worked at on the weekends that had such a bad rep, that we would ask them to leave as soon as they got there. It was either loose those 5 or 6 or loose a bunch of people that came there for a good time with friends. That "team" plays outlaw with a few other guys that have been banned from local fields.
They try to slide in at smaller scenarios by coming by themselves spaced out about 15 or 20 minutes apart, but we know them and refuse to play with or near them.

If others would follow the same example and not cave in to their whining, it would straighten a bunch of cheaters out.

[penguinpunk555]

If you catch a cheater confront him. Don't let him play a game for open play,and the standard 3 for 1 in tourneys. Cheating will never stop get used to it and play on.

[chaos lichen]

I think cheating is on the way out, it will always exist but thanks to the new, harsh NPPL anti-cheating policies it will slow. Also favoritism is diminishing with the inforcing of the rules i.e. Dynasty's second team getting kicked out. Cheating in recball is like putting a screen door on a submarine, there is no point. If your just playing for fun why cheat?!

[tony3]

Cheating on the way out? Give me a break. Cheating has been and will be around as long as humans are alive. Cheating will be here FOREVER, unless they have personal camera's following every player from 9 different angles with 5 refs reviewing each players video after the game in slow motion. Thank GOD this is the last of these threads.

[frop]

i consider in tourny play wiping , kinda like playing the gray. like a foul in basketball or any other sport. we know the penalties , its our choice if we want to do it.

NO! To end this once and for all, wiping is not akin to fouls, etc. It is akin to the ball carrier being down, he gets back up, runs for a touchdown & the refs let it slide, THAT is what it is akin to!

NOTE: This wasn't directed solely at you nastymag, it's to everyone who justifies & rationalizes wiping.

[nastymag]

i see what your are saying.
but the way paintball is played it is gonna have to stay, if we impose very strict rules over it you will defently see some controversy. people talking about DQing teams or players.

anyone who has played a serious tournement will let you know they have been called out on a splash or bunker rup. or you dont get called out only to find out later that your shoe had a shoot in the back. severe rules will have to be implemented on the feild by referees. wrong calls happen. and when we place judgement calls with severe punishments (DQs) there will defently be alot of problems. what i mean is almost everyone has been accused of cheating at one point even if you didnt. just this sunday a ref nearly handed us a major penalty for playing for one our players doing a run thrue. he said our player was playing on, all of us from the dead box saw that he didnt have the hits on his pack until after the run through ( how do we know this ...because dead box was right behind from where he started it).

i wanst angry at the ref, i understand when you make a run through things tend to get a little tense. but what if the tourny had DQ rules, we could have been out of the tournement and we would have been very pissed. and about 6 others teams would have been DQed too. we cant make the punishments to strict to avoid things like this without opening the door for people to wipe or "cheat".
so that mentatlity that i have will always be there.

my 2 cents

[frop]

i see what your are saying.
but the way paintball is played it is gonna have to stay, if we impose very strict rules over it you will defently see some controversy. people talking about DQing teams or players.

anyone who has played a serious tournement will let you know they have been called out on a splash or bunker rup. or you dont get called out only to find out later that your shoe had a shoot in the back. severe rules will have to be implemented on the feild by referees. wrong calls happen. and when we place judgement calls with severe punishments (DQs) there will defently be alot of problems. what i mean is almost everyone has been accused of cheating at one point even if you didnt. just this sunday a ref nearly handed us a major penalty for playing for one our players doing a run thrue. he said our player was playing on, all of us from the dead box saw that he didnt have the hits on his pack until after the run through ( how do we know this ...because dead box was right behind from where he started it).

i wanst angry at the ref, i understand when you make a run through things tend to get a little tense. but what if the tourny had DQ rules, we could have been out of the tournement and we would have been very pissed. and about 6 others teams would have been DQed too. we cant make the punishments to strict to avoid things like this without opening the door for people to wipe or "cheat".
so that mentatlity that i have will always be there.

my 2 cents

That's why I said a sea-change is needed, not just stricter rules...

[Recon by Fire]

Or maybe we will see the opposite change. Since it is acceptable to cheat and part of the game, even necessary; how long will it be before the teams rampage off field and attack spectators? Oh wait, that is basketball.

[SummaryJudgement]

I think if you try to justify cheating in any way, you already have the wrong mindset. To say it's accepted, part of strategy, or fair if "the other guy does it" is...well just WRONG. Sorry, but that's how I feel. There are rules in play for a reason and if you break those rules you SHOULD be punished.

And here's one reason. Does anybody know what a "cocktail" is? Well, I found out when a guy I knew wanted to make one at a tournament we were at. A cocktail is where you fill a hpa tank with compressed air and partially with liquid CO2. The thinking behind it is that the liquid CO2 will slowly expand/heat up over time and lead to an increase in pressure over time. Now I know he did it once without any problems, BUT two weeks later I saw as the reg off his tank rocketed out and put a three inch dent in a truck. DON'T EVER DO THAT YOU STUPID MONKEYS! His thought behind it at the time is that it would somehow "help" him during play or give him an edge, but it's simply the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

So, if you attempt to justify cheating as far as how it relates to playing the game, your opening up more and more oppertunities for people to do things that are potentially dangerous and stupid. As far as I'm concerned this even applies on the level of shooting above a reasonable chrono limit, ramping boards, and wiping. Yes, wiping. If your on the run, mark an opponent (obviously) and keep going, and then get lit up by the guy because he doesn't want to leave the game you are open to being shot from directions and angles you may not normally. There are lots of nerve bundles and important arteries/veins around the head and neck. I once heard a surgeon describe it as "God's country", meaning it's best to leave it alone (a friend of mine was the victim of a stabbing and was pretty screwed up afterwards because he was stabbed in the neck). I sure don't want to get shot right behind my ear multiple times from close range and behind because SOME FOOL ISN'T MATURE TO PLAY THE GAME THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!

OK. That's what I think....