New CFOA and PSP rule

[Carbon]

well, what you have to realize now is, there is an official sanction for paintball players who want to play a different type of game. Essentially, that leaugue is nichefying and developing games that a certain kinda players are attracted to, similar to pump class.

This is a good thing. the sport is branching and is becoming more defined in "character" by the differnt leages and its respective rules.

Variety is the spice of life.

[FromTheBack]

hmm and older software for E-mags like mine with 1.37 are capped at 16, close enough eh?

[pballratt]

this was pulled of of pbnation.

For those of ya'll that doubted the rule!! Straight from Larry!


"First of all, let me say that all the ramping, illegal and un-catchable guns are something that I have agonized over since they first hit the field. My biggest concern then and now is that they are virtually undetectable prior to being activated, and easily deactivated. Any gun-cheat who would get caught in the act of shooting, but had the time to deactivate their chip would scream bloody murder. They would protest to no end that the ref was biased, the gun-cheater was being picked on, that the call was BS, etc... With the cheater-chip deactivated it would come down to: ref said, player said. With so many of you guys doing it and so many more buying the chips to join the cheaters, well you more or less forced the change of rules.

Next, I want everyone to know that the decision to go with the PSP's 15 bps rule was based on 2 things: player safety and insurance.

Now I know many of you aren't too worried about your fellow competitors. That if you shoot him 25 times, that's his bad luck. Many of you aren't aware that at the CFOA finale at Rock Hill, that there was a player who was bunkered by a ramping gun at point blank range in the head. The player who did the shooting was not malicious in his actions, but the quick pulls of the trigger did produce 6 shots to the mask of the player who got bunkered. Those 6 shots at that range broke the unaltered Profiler of the player who was bunkered. We were lucky and no injury occurred. Only the player who got his bell rung and had to buy some new goggles was the worse for wear.

Field Insurance is another thing many of you could probably care less about. There is a reason that no field or series allows the use of full-auto guns. The insurance doesn't cover it. That's why pretty much everybody's rules say one shot one pull. That is semi-automatic. That's not ramping, bouncing, burst mode, or anything else. Why do you think the Turbo mode died years ago?

Now for the record:
The maximum rate of fire for all guns at CFOA events (from this point forward) will be 15 balls per second.
The rule STILL says: One shot, one pull.
Ramping chips and bouncing guns are still deemed illegal.

How to have a legal gun:
Buy a chip (seems like the cool thing to do these days). There will be chips made to not exceed 15 bps. I know these chips will be good for all versions of the Matrix and Intimidator. More guns likely to be added. I know that Will at Tadao is in progress on this now.
Don't know if this will actually happen, but it could; that would be to get a new board for your HALO that keeps the feed rate at 15 bps.
For many of you the answer could be as simple as changing your hopper. Most of the high end guns have eyes and won't fire faster than the hopper can feed. VL Revolution's anyone?

My 2 cents:
My personal feeling is that the folks who have to resort to covert and illegal upgrades to their guns are trying to compensate for a lack of game.
Once everyone understands what 15 bps sounds like, the ones who try to exceed that ROF cap will be obvious to everyone within earshot.
The equipment to enforce the rules will be bought and used appropriately. So be warned. Don't come crying to me when you get caught.

Larry"

[Muzikman]

Well, this sounds like a great rule change if those are infact that rules now. I also think they are doing it for the right reason, and it's nice to find an event that cares about it's players. Although, in saying that, I am sure they are looking out for their own butt first and the player a late second.

[manike]

This rule is stupid, because if people were pulling the trigger legally in the first place then very few would be able to beat 15bps anyway.

So before 'pull legally'

Now 'pull legally and stay below 15'

If they could have enforced the first rule, then the change to the second wouldn't have been required.

Now you will just end up with the new PSP boards in use for everything, with the PSP code as a standard or turned on and off by the cheats. The CFOA won't be able to stop the cheaters with this rule anymore now than they could before.

[billmi]

For the 2005 season, the PSP and CFOA will be instating a 15bps cap apparently, massive ramping is allowed after first 3 shots, but, no full auto, Tadao industries will be releasing the cappec chips for markers soon... And what about mechanical markers that can shoot 15+bps (even in a 2 shot burst, because 15 is too fast to be legal for almost any mech)


discuss

We'll have to see what the rule looks like when it actually gets made, but if it's anything like the NXL's rule, mechanicals won't be a problem. In the NXL it is not illegal for the gun to be *capable* of shooting over 15bps, it is illegal for the player to shoot it over 15 bps in a game.

[Muzikman]

Simon, true, and i do agree...but...they can now detect BPS with chronographs. They are already using chronographs on the field in the X-ball games so now you just need to change so that it can detect BPS too. If you are found shooting over 15bps then out ya go. As for the still being able to cheat, that is one that is hard to prevent. I don't see there being a board or chip for every gun out there, unless it is made by the gun mfg.

If enough events require this type of rule, then maybe we can convince the manufactures that it's no longer about the ROF and then they can go back to hyping accuracy and efficiency. Not to put all these little electronic companies out of business, but if you want to prevent it, make the gun manufactures produce a board that follows these rules, is locked and can not be reprogrammed. If you need a software update, you get a new board, the mfg get's the old one back and recycles it. They could still produce their uber fast ramping boards, but also this simple semi auto board that is capped at 15bps.

This would be like requiring a restrictor plate in NASCAR. Just make everyone follow the rules including the people that build the equipment.

[billmi]

Two: ASME and the paintball industry agreed to a lower maximum bps before.

What is ASME?

Yes, remember when the leading manufacturers said they would either discontinue making (if they already did) or never make (if they didn't yet.) paintguns capable of over 13 bps? Then they changed it to 14bps (because BE would only sign it if they didn't ahave to change the RM.) And then none of them stopped making paintguns capable of those speeds, and many who weren't making them started.

[billmi]

quoted for the truth....oh well, how can they cap a mechanical marker? thats right...they cant....let the rt's rise up now and dominate. according to this you will be allowed bounce, so if i play a psp game, im using my rt, and putting 1200psi into it

As long as you don't go over 15 bps, you're fine.

The NXL rule that this is being moddled on isn't about caps, it's about if they catch you shooting hot, or over 15bps during a game, you are penalized.

[billmi]

ROFL! Those were radar detectors, to measure FPS!

The NXL has been working with the manufacturer of those RADAR guns, and they expect to have versions that measure both velocity and ROF ready by the start of the 2005 season. In addition to the RADAR guns they have also used directional mics with acoustic shot counters. The technology for enforcing ROF on field is still far from perfect, but they are working on it.

[billmi]

This would be like requiring a restrictor plate in NASCAR. Just make everyone follow the rules including the people that build the equipment.

That's the trickiest part. Can you think of a single manufacturer who sponsors a pro team that hasn't been accused of giving the main sponsored team special cheater boards?

[billmi]

This rule is stupid, because if people were pulling the trigger legally in the first place then very few would be able to beat 15bps anyway.

I totally agree. 1 for one, and 3 for 1 penalties are stupid too. If people didn't play on, or wipe, or cheat in other ways, they would not be needed.

So before 'pull legally'

Now 'pull legally and stay below 15'

If they could have enforced the first rule, then the change to the second wouldn't have been required.

Very true. The problem lies in that there isn't a practical model for enforcing the first rule (making sure there's legal software in the gun so the pull is legal) in the current business model of paintball tournaments.

Now you will just end up with the new PSP boards in use for everything, with the PSP code as a standard or turned on and off by the cheats. The CFOA won't be able to stop the cheaters with this rule anymore now than they could before.

If CFOA, NPPL, Pan Am, etc., go the route of capping at 15 bps, and not worrying about the trigger pulls to get there, then it's all down to enforcement - measuring the ROF achieved on the field. As it is now, where the NPPL is the only series doing serious testing (hats off to Dave Zinkham who's been setting new standards in that area,) folks can and are getting away with using illegal boards in these leagues, and even in the NPPL, they are only testing the mode the gun is in before or after the game - if it's secretly switched in and out of a cheater mode on the field, there is no method in place for catching it.

[billmi]

this cap is just a useless way of saying that the promoters gave up on trying to find a way to stop cheater boards.

Yep. Though one might also say that promoters of events utilizing the 15bps cap have recognized that if players are allowed to use their own equipment, the goal of stopping cheater boards is a rather impractical target to shoot for.

[Muzikman]

That's the trickiest part. Can you think of a single manufacturer who sponsors a pro team that hasn't been accused of giving the main sponsored team special cheater boards?

I agree. There was talk a long time ago about banning a gun if it was found to have a mfg "approved" cheater board. I think that would be an interesting idea, but obviously not practical.

You want a sure way to catch cheeters? a High speed video cam and BPS measuring chronograph aimed at random players. The Chrono could detect BPS and the video could tell how fast their finger moves. Now, you would not be able to do this on the fly, but it could be that if someone is caught cheating, they forfit a game, if they get cought again, they are out of the event. I mean it would be a time consuming thing and cost a pretty penny, but I bet it would work.

[manike]

I totally agree. 1 for one, and 3 for 1 penalties are stupid too. If people didn't play on, or wipe, or cheat in other ways, they would not be needed..

I don't agree with your comparison. Just because they can't stop people playing on and wiping have they now made a rule that said 'no playing on by running more than 15 metres after being shot' or 'no wiping more than 15 hits per game'... nope.

Very true. The problem lies in that there isn't a practical model for enforcing the first rule (making sure there's legal software in the gun so the pull is legal) in the current business model of paintball tournaments.

Agreed. So the answer is to make a new rule they can't enforce either? They can enforce the BPS but they still can't enforce the 'one pull one shot' hence...

If CFOA, NPPL, Pan Am, etc., go the route of capping at 15 bps, and not worrying about the trigger pulls to get there, then it's all down to enforcement - measuring the ROF achieved on the field. As it is now, where the NPPL is the only series doing serious testing (hats off to Dave Zinkham who's been setting new standards in that area,) folks can and are getting away with using illegal boards in these leagues, and even in the NPPL, they are only testing the mode the gun is in before or after the game - if it's secretly switched in and out of a cheater mode on the field, there is no method in place for catching it.

Hence the PSP rule is someting I have been advocating on another board for quite some time.

It may be that my suggestion for the rule which the PSP has now made, was just a co-incidence, or the fact that Lane and Steve had read it and talked to me about it has a small factor also. :)

If you can't enforce a rule, then what is the point? This is one reason why I think the PSP rule is far more HONEST and a better rule.

I wish it didn't have to be, but at least it's a decent rule they can enforce and it will make a fair playing field. The CFOA rule is still a joke.

Anybody trying to continue to enforce a 'one pull one shot' rule is sorely kidding themselves in todays market. I wish them luck though. Once they find a way to do it, then we can go back to having no cap...