Oh my Gosh...someone got SP darn good..

[luke]

Those manufacturers interested in incorporating reprogrammable microprocessors into their electro-pneumatic markers,

It doesn't mean that they can't sell electronic markers does it?
It just sounds like they cant use a "re-programmable microprocessor".

I'll admit I know nothing about electronics, but to me it doesn't sound like the end of the world for SP. Can someone explain exactly how this will affect them?

[Muzikman]

Well, it depends on what they are considering a "reprogamable" chip. They they count that as any chip that you can place code on...then SP is screwed as how do you make an electro marker without a brain.

If they consider the "reprogramable" chip as one that once it's in the gun, it can not be rewritten (ie. upgraded). All SP has to do is make a firmware upgrade an entire new chip and just put a socket on the board that the chip goes into.

I think you would have to sit down and read the patent to find out what the "Reprogramable" part means.

[hardr0ck68]

so SP is either gonna hafta pay for the right to use a "reporgamable" board OR they will have to take all the boards out of their infactory markers, replace them with a new non-reprogramable board and then market this new board as making you shoot more accuratly, farther, flatter, more efficently and so on.....

[Muzikman]

Well, that would depend on the def of "reprogramable"

[luke]

Hey thanks, that makes more sense..

[Chris42050]

I doubt NPF is doing this for the good of the sport. I think they are doing this for the good of WDP. But, it's still really cool that SP got beat at it's own game.

[Muzikman]

Now...what is interesting is this.

In August 2004, WDP (NPF) won against SP in Oregon. The ruling there was that the patent for the "electronic" marker was not held solely by SP but should also be granted to both WDP and SP (Both names on the patent). U.S. Patent No. 6,474,326

http://www.paintballchannel.com/news/industry/story04341.php

Now, in December 2004 the Wisconsin courts say that WDP holds the patent for the "reprogrammable microprocessors" use in paintball guns. U.S. patent number 6,615,814

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story04594.php

This puts WDP in a very powerful position. Now I am sure these two court battles were not cheap for WDP, so how are they going to get their money back? Is it going to be by lowering the price of their guns and trying to sell more of them? Is it going to be by charging a $1 per gun licensing fee to other companies for the use of the "electro" gun and any gun that uses the "reprogrammable microprocessors" (Since they do hold rights to both patents). My guess is that they will charge companies a decent fee...not a small fee...but we can hope.

On the other side of this. SP still holds the patent on the "electro" gun. So they can still require a license fee. What I am not sure about, and maybe if there is a patent lawyer in the house they can answer it. If WDP makes a license agreement with company 'A' in regards to U.S. Patent No. 6,474,326 can Smart Parts turn around and require a license fee also?

All this really did was take a sticky and ugly situation and turned it into tar.

What I would have rather seen was the Oregon courts throw out the validity of the patent totally, not give WDP the rights to it as well.


BTW: Here are the two patents in questions:

U.S. Patent No. 6,474,326:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%226%2C474%2C326%22&OS=%226,474,326%22&RS=%226,474,326%22

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%226%2C474%2C326%22&OS=%226,474,326%22&RS=%226,474,326%22

U.S. Patent No. 6,615,814:

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=%226%2C615%2C814%22&OS=%226,615,814%22&RS=%226,615,814%22

[thecavemankevin]

awh dude, you got owned! I saw it, fking owned!!

meh, round and round we go....i just like it that is say after december 9th they can't sell anymore imps, nerves or shockers......and that is deffinatly good for the sport

[Muzikman]

Ok, I just got done reading most of U.S. Patent No. 6,615,814 and if I understand it right, it doesn't cover all chips. If you make a removable chip that is programable outside of the gun, it looks like you would be safe. At the same time, it also looks as if you have a display (any display) on the gun, that is covered under the patent.

After reading these different patents I am starting to think that in order to be granted a patent, you have to actually make the device before the patent is issued and the patent only covers what you built.

For instance, the above patent covers any paintball that can be connected to a remote terminal via a data link. But the patent covers everything from a physical wire, to IR, to radio waves. It's just shy of mind control. :)

[SlartyBartFast]

[WARPED1]

I am an SP supporter, from a products point of view. I never cared for the legal crapola they pulled.
More importantly, who is NPF? And will AGD and AKA start making thier e guns once all the smoke clears?

[Muzikman]

NPF is WDP's parent company. This was a fight between SP and WDP.

EDIT: In my early paintball career I sis a lot of shopping at SP. They are only 45 mins away. I have been to their old warehouse a ton of times, I had delt with them a lot and even played at the same field as the AA Am team back in the mid 90's (was even asked to join the team). At that time I thought they were good guys. As time went on and as the dealings with SP got harder and I started to realize they did not care for their customers I started to dis like them. It finally came down to where I was buying my gear else where as i did not want to deal with them at all.

I guess this story is to show, that once a layal customer even started to hate Smart Parts because of the way they went about to make more money.

BTW: I am starting to feel the same way about NPS. They are not sitting real well with me at the moment.

[Mr. Mouse]

good thing i got my shocker and all the upgrades before this happened ^.^

[Lohman446]

LMAO.. watch Microsoft get word of this reprogramable microchip and sue the crap out of everyone... then all markers will have a dysfunctional windows program.... wait for about 3K shots and the inevitable reboot and then make your move.

[hitech]

Well, it depends on what they are considering a "reprogamable" chip. They they count that as any chip that you can place code on...then SP is screwed as how do you make an electro marker without a brain.

You could use a 555 timer chip. It won't give you many features, but it would work.


Anyone know where we can read the patent involved or the ruling?