More legal happenings in Paintball

[JoshK]

They have a copywrited name, as you can read a few posts above, i guess they werent sueing on how it works...but on the use of cocker, and i guess the milling or something along those lines...THATS how they won.


I am very glad to hear this...maybe after all this, the companies will be able to live in harmony.

[rabidchihauhau]

dirtybunny,

"don't try to teach your grandpa how to suck eggs" is the most appropriate response.

Tradedress does NOT have to be registered in order to be in effect. Tradedress gains most of its clout from use in the marketplace, as in, it is readily identifiable to consumers because of unique design features and has enjoyed that recognition for a number of years.

Furthermore, WGP DOES have trademarks for 'Autococker' and 'Cocker'; furthermore, they have been using the name for a number of years with the 'TM' after it, which means that they are letting everyone know its a trademark, just hasn't gotten through the registration process yet. The name now has the 'R' after it. See below.

Typed Drawing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word Mark AUTOCOCKER
Goods and Services IC 013. US 002 009. G & S: Guns, gunsights for firearms, gun cartridges, gun cotton, gun locks, gun mounts, gun triggers; guns for firing tag cartridges and pellets; ammunition, namely, tagging pellets and cartridges. FIRST USE: 19910900. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19910900
Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING
Serial Number 75792260
Filing Date September 3, 1999
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition June 18, 2002
Registration Number 2616243
Registration Date September 10, 2002
Owner (REGISTRANT) WORRGAME PRODUCTS, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 13517 1/2 Alondra Boulevard Santa Fe Springs CALIFORNIA 90670
(LAST LISTED OWNER) WGP, LLC C/O JOHN D. FLYNN C/O BRASS EAGLE, LLC LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY DELAWARE 1201 S.E. 30TH STREET BENTONVILLE ARKANSAS 72712

Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Colin P. Abrahams
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

That's right from the PTO trademark search engine you ***************

It hurts real bad when reality doesn't match your beliefs, doesn't it?

Oh. I see, you're trying to differentiate the engineering from the tradedress/trademark issues.

First of all, that's a Palmer/ORR thing, and since I count both of them as close friends, I'm not jumping into that one at all.

Secondly, that issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the WGP/AKALMP lawsuit - which is what I was talking about.

Third, many of the innovations in the 'cocker would have been patentable if they had bothered to apply for them - but that wasn't something folks in the industry did back then.

Fourth, protecting tradedress is just as legitimate and important as protecting patents, copyrights or trademarks. Take a look at the coca-cola bottle, and realize that the SHAPE for that bottle is one of the most vigorously protected pieces of trade dress in the world. Huge battles have been fought over it.

[Muzikman]

I think Dirtybunny misunderstood. I think he is talking about the actual "autococking" system. This idea was not developed by WGP. The only thing WGP did was put it all into a block of aluminum.

Even the Sniper was not their design. They just took a sheridan pump and put it into an aluminum body. And to be honest, kinda screwed up the design.

Think about it, Sheridan pumps used the bolt to pull back on the hammer. When WGP came out with the Sniper, they created the back block and cocking rod. then people realized that the back block just created more mass and the the new half blocks did away with the backblock

Yes, WGP/K2 has a trademark on the name "Autococker" and "Cocker" which in my mind is a great move on their part. They are not really hurting anyone by doing this. And yes you do not have to file for tradedress, so if something does "look" like the product that you make, and when people see said product, they think of your product, it can be protected. BUT, there are limitations to this. This is to prevent company A from using a similar design to fake people into thinking they are buying the other (more popular) products. I actually do not see this happening in many of the items in the WGD/K2 lawsuits.

Oh, and just incase you are wondering...

The Pneumatic operation of the "Autococker" was developed by Glenn Palmer
The valve/hammer used in the "Autococker" was developed by Sheridan

[spasticsquirrel]

The Pneumatic operation of the "Autococker" was developed by Glenn Palmer
The valve/hammer used in the "Autococker" was developed by Sheridan

they just took the best of both worlds and put them together..

[Muzikman]

they just took the best of both worlds and put them together..

Umm...no. Palmer guns use Sheridan valves. Hell, Palmer guns are based on the sheridan design completely. A Stroker is a Sheridan pump converted to a semi. So, all they did was take the pneumatic operated system used to convert a Sheridan pump, and place it in an aluminum block instead of stacked brass tubes.

[rabidchihauhau]

dirtybunny;

I apologize for going a little over the top in my last response to you. It pushed my 'I can't believe I'm still hearing this bs' button. So, for the tone of that response, I apologize. As for the facts, they still remain the facts.

Muzik,

granting for the moment that everything you say is true - why does that situation draw your ire? Do you think that there's anything technological on the face of this planet that isn't based on someone else's previous work? Maybe we should all stop using anything that has a wheel in it because way back when 'Ug' the caveman invented the wheel and everyone just copied him...Good thing 'Gug' hadn't invented patents back then, huh?

The sniper is truly a hybrid design. Going the way Bud went lightened the pump stroke and essentially separated the bolt action from the hammer action.

I have to treat these accusations of 'theft' of ideas personally, since I am friends (for a long time) with both Palmer and Bud. When I first met Bud, he was the only vendor at a tournament who helped me fix my gun; he worked on a competitor's gun, he gave me free parts and he was genuinely interested in what I had to say about that gun, his gun and gun technology.

When I first met Palmer, he was introducing a double barrelled monster of a gun; he had some really cool stuff and he was a very interesting personality.

I honestly try and ignore the ocassional squabbling because in my mind, both of these men have contributed greatly to this sport and I prefer to look at the positive things both of them have done, rather than the areas of contention. I'll not state an opinion on the subject because I don't have one (I'm not sufficiently interested to ask either of them what the 'real' story is) and its not necessary for me to have one in order to enjoy their company and to enjoy their products.

I think it would be best for most folks if they did the same - take what they have to offer and ignore the rest of it.

[yakitori]

its a shame that these ppl act like children. All of these paintball companies that are suing others are acting like crybabies. Its not helping the sport.

[Muzikman]

I honestly try and ignore the ocassional squabbling because in my mind, both of these men have contributed greatly to this sport and I prefer to look at the positive things both of them have done, rather than the areas of contention. I'll not state an opinion on the subject because I don't have one (I'm not sufficiently interested to ask either of them what the 'real' story is) and its not necessary for me to have one in order to enjoy their company and to enjoy their products.

I think it would be best for most folks if they did the same - take what they have to offer and ignore the rest of it.

No offense, but it's attitudes like this that caused Tom (and soon Glenn) to leave the industry. And I don't blame Bud as much as Jeff (which, where is he now?). The problem is that people getting into this sport are misinformed by so many others. They get the idea that Smart Parts built the first electro and that WGP invented the autococking system. And hell if you read that issue of SI a few weeks ago you would think that WGP also invented the first pump action paintball gun, which I hope most know is not true.

I have talked to Bud, but do not consider him a friend. I know Glenn much better, but wouldn't call him a friend either, though I have socialized with him. I guess what I am getting at, I too have met both these men many times, and I still see the old school attitude and principle in Glenn and do not see it in Bud any more.

[SlartyBartFast]

you have to apply for tradedress protection?!

Sorry to revive a thread (reall I am :rofl: ) but,

http://library.lp.findlaw.com/articles/file/00587/003089/title/Subject/topic/Intellectual%20Property_Trade%20Dress/filename/intellectualproperty_1_762

You don't HAVE to apply for tradedress protection, just like you don't HAVE to register a trademark. But it's difficult to prove and win your case if you don't.

(Same goes for copyright. You don't TECHNICALLY have to do anything to be protected. But it helps to take precautions to prove your rights.)