Tournament rules ethics, quick question

[Tyger]

Well, it's one question with a few aspects to it.

Let's say I'm interested in going to a tournament (go with me on this...). I look over the rules, and there are no rules specificlaly talking about what kinds of paintguns can or can not be used. The only restrictions are that the paintgun must have a lockable velocity adjustment.

So I'm asking this specific to tournament style of play. If there is nothing in black & white prohibiting a specific technology, is it allowable? If the rules do not specificly or broadly prohibit things like ramping boards, full auto, burst modes and so on, is that being given permission by the event to use these modes? I'm not talking the "spirit of the law", I'm talking about the "letter of the law". And thinking of it, should tournament players be expected to play to the "spirit" of the rules, or to the "writing" of the rules?

Related, should an event be responsible to publish a rulebook at the event, and make it accessable to anyone and everyone that asks to see it? Does an event have the right to re-write the rules at the event site?

Just curious to opinions.

-Tyger

[Lohman446]

Tyger, in your example there legal - anything except velocity adjustments UNTIL told otherwise.

Now understand that I have and use ramp. I normally specifically ask the promoter if ramp is legal, or if Im tryign to be sneaky if we are playing under NXL gun rules.

[Lee]

agree w/ Lohman. nothing in your statement prohibits them.

the spirit of the rules is unenforcable.

the promoter is responsible for having written rules that cover what is expected of a player and teams and it must be accessable. actually, every team and player should have read and have a working knowledge of the rules for that given event. the rule book must also be enforced....but thats another topic.....

i think rules should only be re-written for safety issues. once a rule book or format is set and published, it should be set. the possible exception is a published amendment date prior to the event. if the promoter doesn't have a rule set by the time that rule is needed, then it's thier bad. but, this is where "head refs and ultimate judges descretion" comes in....which again is another topic.......

[REDRT]

If it isn't written then it is legal. How I feel about it is one must take every advantage to win. If you don't someone else is, putting you at a disadvantage.

[brianlojeck]

spirit of the rules only exists in friendly games. In all cases where money is on the line it is the letter that matters.

that's why I only play friendly games. ;-)

[the larch]

Uhm, yea.
How about "here's your money back now go home."
If you have to question if what you are doing is ethical, or right, then it probably is not. Every ruling not covered in writing at an event can be enforced ex post facto by simply not letting the team play. It's not like you can take them to court because your paintball rights have been violated. I doubt the other teams are going to be sympathetic either.
Just because the rules don't "say" I can't drive my paintball gatling mounted hummer onto the hyperball field doesn't mean I should be allowed too.

I can't believe that the sport has gotten to a point where people expect to be forced to be honorable or they are not responsible for their actions. If you want to stay honorable, you should ask the people who are running the tournament if what you intend is ok....not us.

[Kodiak]

If you have to question if what you are doing is ethical, or right, then it probably is not.

I agree, sort of. Things like full auto and ramp boards are not necessarily "unethical or wrong".

the spirit of the rules is unenforcable.

I totally agree. The rules that are to be enforced in any professional sport MUST be in writing. The interpetations and application of the rules must be consistant also. I saw a program the other day on pro football refs. At the end of every week they get together and review the penaltys and calls that were made. They review the rulings and what rules were quoted to make them. Paintball promoters and refs must have the same commitment to the sport. For the benefit of the players and the spectators too. Inconsistant enforcement and "looking away" at rules violations only degrades the sports in others eyes.

[wimag]

well just like your thread questions can be asked to the field hosting the tourney. if they express a format say similar to NPPL then bone up on that literature to answer it.
what exactly is the underlying point of your question, you have been aroud the blocka few times to know the answers to this.

Well, it's one question with a few aspects to it.

Let's say I'm interested in going to a tournament (go with me on this...). I look over the rules, and there are no rules specificlaly talking about what kinds of paintguns can or can not be used. The only restrictions are that the paintgun must have a lockable velocity adjustment.

So I'm asking this specific to tournament style of play. If there is nothing in black & white prohibiting a specific technology, is it allowable? If the rules do not specificly or broadly prohibit things like ramping boards, full auto, burst modes and so on, is that being given permission by the event to use these modes? I'm not talking the "spirit of the law", I'm talking about the "letter of the law". And thinking of it, should tournament players be expected to play to the "spirit" of the rules, or to the "writing" of the rules?

Related, should an event be responsible to publish a rulebook at the event, and make it accessable to anyone and everyone that asks to see it? Does an event have the right to re-write the rules at the event site?

Just curious to opinions.

-Tyger

[brightman]

Although I dont agree with using full auto or ramping boards under the given example I would say that the only thing that could be enforced is the velocity lock.
Although I do agree with The Larch on the idea of, if they dont like the unwritten rules give them their money back and send em on their way, I dont think it is practical. It falls under the "you cant change the rules as we play" law. If you run a sports event of any time, from basketball to football to paintball to BINGO, the written rules of the game are the only enforceble rules.
If you want a tournament without full auto ramping guns than it should be specified in the tournament rules.

[rkjunior303]

written rules..

The league we played in, NEPL, publishes a rule book based on the NPPL which they adhere to for the year.

[REDRT]

Uhm, yea.
How about "here's your money back now go home."
If you have to question if what you are doing is ethical, or right, then it probably is not. Every ruling not covered in writing at an event can be enforced ex post facto by simply not letting the team play. It's not like you can take them to court because your paintball rights have been violated. I doubt the other teams are going to be sympathetic either.
Just because the rules don't "say" I can't drive my paintball gatling mounted hummer onto the hyperball field doesn't mean I should be allowed too.

I can't believe that the sport has gotten to a point where people expect to be forced to be honorable or they are not responsible for their actions. If you want to stay honorable, you should ask the people who are running the tournament if what you intend is ok....not us.

Well, there is the common sence issue of not going too far. Every field is different. Thats the first problem right there. But since there not, we are playing the "grey area". ( sound like a liberal now) If I was to cast out the "demons" and go solely "ethical" I'd play rec ball. But I don't. I'm playing for higher stakes than a simple "good job". Even though I fully agree with you on, "ethics" are out the window in some cases. They are not enforced so you got to go with it or loose alot. I think there should be limits. I'm spending alot of money keeping up, but until there is, I'm going to play to win. Don't get me wrong the team and I are not dirty rotten SOBs. We help out the field owner, support the other teams and try to do right by taking the time to help kids and rec players when we can, but on the air field we do are best to dominate with no mercy.

[GT]

"spirit of the law"

"letter of the law"

-Tyger

thats the problem right there. In this country we flurt with both all to quickly depending on what we want the outcome to be. Ironically, it seems that the rules have not cought up with technology we all know that most local tounry's do not allow full out simply be social constructs, however shouldnt the rules reflect said trends?

[Wc Keep]

most tourneys use what they call modified nppl rules. this means that they tweak the nppl rules to fit their tourney. all nppl rules are in effect though. so that means that if nppl says ramp is not ok than so does that tourney.

[tony3]

I guess people use semi guns because well it is common sense? I know that the badlandz 3 and 5 man series don't have a rule book online. It really isn't needed. Most people know how to play paintball in tournies. For all other boarderline rules, they go over them in the captains meeting.

[Lee]

thats the problem right there. In this country we flurt with both all to quickly depending on what we want the outcome to be. Ironically, it seems that the rules have not cought up with technology we all know that most local tounry's do not allow full out simply be social constructs, however shouldnt the rules reflect said trends?

i agree and disagree......there are rules to cover most if not all issues, but enforcement is selective. i agree that arguing gray areas is very much abused. thats why i think rules should be written and available as well as enforced without bias. frankly, finding a guy to ref and stand up for his decision ain't that easy when you have a "pro" get in your face.

i have experienced selective enforcement as a referee first hand. at a major tourney in my area by a national promoter, the scrutineer came to me and said " i want THAT gun". i pulled it as directed. but in a later game when i pulled a suspect marker, i was told "i'm not interested in that marker".

i, personally, feel that national tournament level paintball will not be legitimized until officiating becomes "proffessional".

i like what the nppl is doing as far as teaching and certification, but i feel they are doing it for promotional reasons more so than for the betterment of the sport.
please don't get me wrong , i feel certification and training are good for the game, but, it must be used properly in practice.