Please Explain This Behaviour/Rule

[SlartyBartFast]

[Temo Vryce]

Having never seen any team find a hit on the flag carrier I don't know what they would do if it happened. If it was me I would point the hit out and have another player hang the flag. If it was a hit that could be considered an obivious hit then I would have no iusses if the refs called a 1 for 1. If it wasn't an obvious hit, pod back for example, then I don't think the refs should call a 1 for 1. All in all it would really depend on the players, the refs and the location of the hit. I would rather find the hit before the hang than after.

[Lohman446]

Depending on rules... they are checking for an unobvious hit, which is only elimination of the hit player and no penalty. Some places, if you have a "dead hang" where the player was eliminated when it was hung the other team gets points for the hang as if they had hung it. Some places noone gets the hang and someplaces time continues until a live player hangs it. Its just a good practice to get into, assuming you have the time before a hang. My team makes a practice, given time of a back player hanging the flag to avoid any questionable hits on a front player (less likely on a back player).

[SlartyBartFast]

I can understand in the case of a dead-hang having points going to the other team then. But, if the carrier was found to be hit, can the flag be passed to a live player for a 'live' hang?

Still seems to be a sticky situation that I'm not sure anyone has dealt with realistically.


And, by the way: Anyone responding in this thread, I would like to know your opinions in this other thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166036.

[Lohman446]

I can understand in the case of a dead-hang having points going to the other team then. But, if the carrier was found to be hit, can the flag be passed to a live player for a 'live' hang?

Still seems to be a sticky situation that I'm not sure anyone has dealt with realistically.


And, by the way: Anyone responding in this thread, I would like to know your opinions in this other thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=166036.

In an unobvious hit - where there would be no penalty (PSP defines this only as a hit to the back of the pack area) yes... the player is eliminated according to the rules as soon as he is aware of the hit or made aware of it.

[SlartyBartFast]

Ah. I see they're far better at defining "unobvious hits" now (NPPL is the same I see).

[manike]

Depending on rules... they are checking for an unobvious hit, which is only elimination of the hit player and no penalty. Some places, if you have a "dead hang" where the player was eliminated when it was hung the other team gets points for the hang as if they had hung it. Some places noone gets the hang and someplaces time continues until a live player hangs it. Its just a good practice to get into, assuming you have the time before a hang. My team makes a practice, given time of a back player hanging the flag to avoid any questionable hits on a front player (less likely on a back player).

Yep. Or if you hang the flag with a hit you can get a 1-4-1. So you are better being checked and eliminated with a live player left to hang the flag, than risk it.

Good practice when taking into account how different sets of rules work.

[White_Noise]

playing a tournament, an event that is similiar to that happend:

3 man tournament:

one of our players eliminated shortly after break. i eliminate one player of theirs.

one of their players makes a move, i get a few balls off, he snaps out shoots me.

he moves, shoots our remaining player.

grabs the flag and hangs it.

now he is checked, turns out i hit him before he got the flag.

a 1 for 1 is called, meaning they have no live players available for the flag hang.

the points for 2 eliminations, flag pull, and flag hang go to my team.

this was a finals match, and it meant the difference between 3rd and 4th. because of the game changing turn of events, we ended up in 3rd, they got 4th.

Props to those guys though(shortbus), they didnt try to argue with the refs or anything and completely understood the call.

[SlartyBartFast]

Yep. Or if you hang the flag with a hit you can get a 1-4-1. So you are better being checked and eliminated with a live player left to hang the flag, than risk it.

Good practice when taking into account how different sets of rules work.

But the enforcement of the rules is no good then. The 1-4-1 (or really 2-4-1 in this case, no? What other scenario is better deserving of the higher playing-on penalty?) should be assesed no matter who hangs the flag. Indeed an astute ref should call the penalty as soon as the flag carrier is inspected by his teammates and the flag is handed off or the ref should inspect the original flag carrier first before inspecting the player that hung the flag.

[MrMag]

playing a tournament, an event that is similiar to that happend:

3 man tournament:

one of our players eliminated shortly after break. i eliminate one player of theirs.

one of their players makes a move, i get a few balls off, he snaps out shoots me.

he moves, shoots our remaining player.

grabs the flag and hangs it.

now he is checked, turns out i hit him before he got the flag.

a 1 for 1 is called, meaning they have no live players available for the flag hang.

the points for 2 eliminations, flag pull, and flag hang go to my team.

this was a finals match, and it meant the difference between 3rd and 4th. because of the game changing turn of events, we ended up in 3rd, they got 4th.

Props to those guys though(shortbus), they didnt try to argue with the refs or anything and completely understood the call.

lol wow, nearly the same thing happened to me at a five man. If a player hangs the flag with an obvious hit they are pulled, along with a teamate, the hang goes to the other team and depending on when the hit supposedly happened, the pull too.

In my situation the guy who hung it with a hit was an idiot. Every one on the sidelines saw him get hit in the back of the head going for the fifty but the refs were inbreads so it took them a little while. Meanwhile he shot two of our guys and got and hung the flag. When told to spin around after hanging the flag he ran up to a bunker and started to rub the back of his body and head on it...needless to say this worsened the penalty.

This is why you always have a teamate check you before the hang...ALWAYS!

[SlartyBartFast]

This is why you always have a teamate check you before the hang...ALWAYS!

But everybody is ignoring my point.

It's IRRELEVANT whether the person that hangs the flag is clean. The infractions were still perpetrated by the person who pulled the flag and/or anyone else invloved in carrying the flag.

[Lohman446]

But everybody is ignoring my point.

It's IRRELEVANT whether the person that hangs the flag is clean. The infractions were still perpetrated by the person who pulled the flag and/or anyone else invloved in carrying the flag.

It is not, to me though irrelevant for an unobvious hit - which there are not playing on penalties for - simple elmination of the flag carrier.

[SlartyBartFast]

It is not, to me though irrelevant for an unobvious hit - which there are not playing on penalties for - simple elmination of the flag carrier.

I'll concede on unobvious hits.

But if the hit is obvious (doofus with the hit to the head), there should be no question of changing flag carriers to avoid penalties.

[50 cal]

Bart,
In MSPA, we always played it, if you have any hit after checked, the flag goes back to the point it was picked up from. The marked player gets eliminated, if it's an obvious hit a 1 for 1 is called. If the team that pulled the flag has no one left. The other team gets the pull and hang.

[Lohman446]

here comes an unpopular answer. While the mid and back player are checking each other and everyone is watching them it gives the front players time to remove any SPRAY that might be questioned by a ref without being noticed before the inspection after the hang

Umm.. not that I would.. umm condone doing that or do it ever...