Preset Vs. Adjustable

[Jack & Coke]

I believe that they do perform different. Now I made a little video on this a while back using Carbon's E-Mag. Gimme a bit of time to dig it up. The preset tends to chuff and misfire at the high ROF's, the preset does not. It is a performance difference. The video is here on AO but gimme a sec to go find it.

Edit: That was easy.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=154159

Strange... my emag never chuffs while using hybrid and my pre-set crossfire.

Mybe I'm not 'hybriding' fast enough...

[Steelrat]

I believe that they do perform different. Now I made a little video on this a while back using Carbon's E-Mag. Gimme a bit of time to dig it up. The preset tends to chuff and misfire at the high ROF's, the preset does not. It is a performance difference. The video is here on AO but gimme a sec to go find it.

Edit: That was easy.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=154159

Is that because of the output, or the flow? I'm thinking flow, in which case is just an indicator that the dynaflow kicks that particular preset's butt

Oh, and like Z-man stated, Conquests and mags dont mix. Good tanks, but not for mags.

[Steelrat]

Strange... my emag never chuffs while using hybrid and my pre-set crossfire.

Mybe I'm not 'hybriding' fast enough...

*cough*Z-mancheats*cough*bouncing20bps*cough*

[Z-man]

you just can't back me up without that can you It's too tempting. So maybe I used Hybrid mode every few games... but you know it was RARE if ever

[Mav D MagMan]

Thanks for all of the info guys, and like I mentioned I have already seen the video Z-Man, of an E-mag being fed too many variables. It is obvious that there will be a difference between 800 psi and 1k at that ROF, no matter what's feeding the air.

I've read over the thread a few times and still haven't hit too much concrete evidence, or reason to go one way or the other.

I see that there are claims of performance differences/feel (whatever that is)/tastes and I'm appreciating all the input. So far I see some positive information that the Crossfire can in fact keep up with a normally fired E-mag without any adverse effects, is this true?

[Z-man]

Thanks for all of the info guys, and like I mentioned I have already seen the video Z-Man, of an E-mag being fed too many variables. It is obvious that there will be a difference between 800 psi and 1k at that ROF, no matter what's feeding the air.

I've read over the thread a few times and still haven't hit too much concrete evidence, or reason to go one way or the other.

I see that there are claims of performance differences/feel (whatever that is)/tastes and I'm appreciating all the input. So far I see some positive information that the Crossfire can in fact keep up with a normally fired E-mag without any adverse effects, is this true?

Did you watch the video? That's closer to hard evidence from my point of view

http://www.800tag5150.com/videos/preset_vs_adjust.mov

[Jack & Coke]

So far I see some positive information that the Crossfire can in fact keep up with a normally fired E-mag without any adverse effects, is this true?

YES, from my experience (EMAG + Crossfire), this is true.

[Mav D MagMan]

Yes for the third time, I DID watch that video. I thought it was a great view of how much you could effect the highest levels of performance and the first reason I probably missed out on a good deal on a Crossfire stubby.

However, the differences in the pressure as well as the other factors that could have effected the test sway me from believing that you have proven either reg is more/less effective (at least flow wise, if not adjustability). Show me the adjustable performing at 800 and I'll be impressed

Thanks J&C and Z-Man as well as everyone else who have already posted.

Will

[Z-man]

YES, from my experience (EMAG + Crossfire), this is true.

Bah you dont have a video, just eye candy! 2 can play at that game..

But in all seriousness that you asked "So far I see some positive information that the Crossfire can in fact keep up with a normally fired E-mag without any adverse effects, is this true?"

Abswer any tank will keep up until a certain speed where it starts starving the RT reg. If you are like say, CableDawg :P (you know I love you man) who never breaks 7bps on his X-Mag, heck you CAN run a MacDev tank or a preset or just about anything your heart desires.

Let's put it in simple terms. The perset you CAN outrun if you have decent fast fingers. The high flow adjustable, you wont PERIOD. What's right for you? Well if you cannot afford an adjustable, that ends that doesn't it? If you want to get a preset, you will get it no matter what is said. You have my opinion, the resons I think so and a video to demo it. Your call. Either way the gun is going to work.

[Z-man]

However, the differences in the pressure as well as the other factors that could have effected the test sway me from believing that you have proven either reg is more/less effective (at least flow wise, if not adjustability). Show me the adjustable performing at 800 and I'll be impressed

You have hit the core reason to get an adjustable tank. the fact that you CAN adjust it. sure the Mag runs on 800psi but why run it at that when it runs nicer at 850-900-950+? the adjustable gives you the ability to tune it. Is there some reason you want to run 800? I mean there is no downside to running it higher so saying that you want an adjustable that performs that way at 850 seems beside the point. Can you explain a bit on that perhaps?

[Jack & Coke]

Z-man... i'm just showing the pic so he knows I have an EMAG and CROSSFIRE.

Not to sway his opinion with "eye candy"

I could care less if he buys a DynaFlo or Crossfire... (i have both! )

From my experience, I have never "starved" my gun while using the CROSSFIRE.

Maybe you got a dud that needs to be rebuilt?

You should call Crossfire and let them know... I'm sure they'd be interested in your video.

[Mav D MagMan]

Well, I never said that I can't afford an adjustable, you're assuming that by limmited funds I mean broke/poor. In the Air Force we do a lot of benefit/cost and when even a used adjustable tank costs more than twice as much I am paid a month, I have to really weigh the benefits.

I am all for supplying my investment (EMag) with the best. If I can fit my needs with a Crossfire, why drop the money (and add the weight) of an adjustable.

Sorry if my point was muddled in my earlier post... I just wanted to point out that at those speeds the 800 psi output tank was starving the mag and the 1k wasn't. However, I was just curious that if the adjustable was really the better design, it could still give the neccessary flow rate to sustain such a high rate of fire at an 800 psi output. I'm not the first to wonder, another did when you posted that video in the first place.

Either way, my E-mag is not firing at the very limits of its performance (where you were in that video) and therefore I really can't apply it to my situation.

Will

*Edit* btw, my E's better looking, he hasn't swayed me a bit!

[Z-man]

Z-man... i'm just showing the pic so he knows I have an EMAG and CROSSFIRE.

Not to sway his opinion with "eye candy"

I could care less if he buys a DynaFlo or Crossfire... (i have both! )

Oh come on you know I am just playing.

From my experience, I have never "starved" my gun while using the CROSSFIRE.

Maybe you got a dud that needs to be rebuilt?

You should call Crossfire and let them know... I'm sure they'd be interested in your video.

I *think* carbon's E-Mag is in spec but yes that was only 1 gun. My own (ex) SFL behaved in a similar fashon so I am inclined to thing this way. But if you did not have this issue then I have to conclude that either

1- I have been testing Mags that happen to perform poorly with presets

2- You don't shoot at speeds that overtax your preset.

I dunno.

[Z-man]

Well, I never said that I can't afford an adjustable, you're assuming that by limmited funds I mean broke/poor.

Nope I don't assume that. Many people budget their spendings and a pricy adjustable is not in the buget. Whatever the reasons, if you don't want/can't get it, you wan't that's all (nothing accusatory in there)

However, I was just curious that if the adjustable was really the better design, it could still give the neccessary flow rate to sustain such a high rate of fire at an 800 psi output. I'm not the first to wonder, another did when you posted that video in the first place.

That is a very good question that I have wondered about myself. I would LIKE to say that and to some degree I think that is true. The most obvious example is shown in my rapid-fire videos. If all regs were basically the same, then (concerning adjustable tanks) they should all start rapid-firing on the game gun at about the same pressure (900, 950 whatever).

But this is not the case. The 3K AGD Flatline system had to be pumped up to over 1000psi before it would even think about rapid-firing, but the 4500psi AGD system would kick in around 950psi. The Max-Flo system I ran would get into rapid-fire around 900psi and by 1000psi it was going NUTZ (compared to 1000psi on the 3K Flatline).

Besides input pressure there is also recharge rate of the regulator to consider. Just because you put 100+psi into the valve does not mean that it will keep up with the RT valve if the tank reg is slow. The pressure can drop down to 7-800 if you get going fast enough and then you start to chuff until you give the reg a moment to catch up.

Additionally, the volume of air that is stored up between the tank reg and the RT valve will affect things. As an extreme example, lets say that you have the tank connected to the RT valve directly; the output of the tank is screwed into the RT valve back. Whenever the marker fires the valve is immediately waiting on the tank reg to feed it and the speed at which it can refill will most immediately determine how fast the RT valve will cycle.

Now let's say you had the tank set up normal but it feeds into a gas through, but this gas through was like 2 cubic feet in volume; then you have a different situation. While the tank has to refill the air that RT valve shoots, there is a HUGE buffer of pressurized air that can instantly refill the chamber and each shot, overall drops the pressure in the that gas through only a little bit.

So there are many factors to think about but the one point that I come back to is this. Regardless of all those other factors, a high flow adjustable tank overcomes any and all of those variables and gives you that performance in all configurations. It's the "for sure" solution and that is why I like it.

[gc82000]

*cough*Z-mancheats*cough*bouncing20bps*cough*

man and you guys are friends. My own friends dont even hit that low.