Crown Point Barrel Discussion

[Riotz]

Funny, but good test.

If you would have just made the subject "$20 Crown Point Barrel" I bet you would have sold old.


shartley, don't be so harse.

[Russ]

Tom,

As I said in my original post, I felt insulted by the way you "talked down" to the members here. Maybe you prooved some point to your goomba's, but you've lost some of my respect.

And talking about hyped up "junk", my superbolt sits at the factory, and no one there seems to know what to do about them. It was shipped .015" too long, and broke crazy amounts of paint. I have already felt as if I was "taken" by the hype of a less than useful product, which I bought because of AGD's reputation for selling only well-tested and quality products.

I have also pre-ordered a 4500 Flatline system from Drop Zone. I will call and cancel the order tommorrow. My faith in AGD products AND attitudes is changing. I will go with a proven 4500psi air system.

Russ

[FooTemps]

Russ,

Name one other product that performed as poorly as the superbolt... Yeah, that's right, the wire nubbin. With that fixed we only have one bad part... how can you change with ONE bad part? Almost all companies mess up once and a while...

[Blennidae]

Re: Crown Point Barrel Discussion

Originally posted by AGD
AO,

At first I was worried but you passed the test well. I was at dinner with Swarm and one of the players commented that AO was not a good place to get feed back because everyone there was a Mag drone. While he mean it in a nice way he did have a point. I didn't have a good way to prove to him that he was wrong until I came across the question about the 8" Crown Point Barrel and started to reply. The reply turned into a test to prove my point, that collectively you all are NOT ALL ONE MIND.

AGD

Mr.Kaye,
I don't think what you did really proved your point the Swarm player brought up. You took a well known item, with less than stellar performance and went about "selling" it in a method different than your normal mode of business.

Many members noticed that you were acting differently and took it to mean you were joking/were not really serious.

I think to truly prove the point you would have to come up with a fictional product you know would make ZERO difference on performance, and "sell" it in your normal manner. If the masses followed the "word of Tom" without question, then we are all drones. Someone (hopefully more than one) would have to stand up against your claims, and win over the crowd.

Unfortunately it seems it might not really be worth the experiment. Even this more obvious one seems to have gotten out of hand.

Just my opinion...

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Army
If it helps any of you to feel better, we Mods were taken in at first, but then came to the conclusion that Tom was hanging around the steel door at the end of the hall during more military ball testing! (figured he took one too many to the head...)

Not all of us. I recognized it as pigeon crap immediately. :)

BTW, this was a good exercise. I think the only critics were those who got duped... :) It's a good eye opener for some... you can see how fallible your own precepts and opinions can really be, and the difficulties in assessing things that are not easily understandable - although naively you may think they may be. A lot of people don't take well to this idea, and often take offense... too bad for them.

Think beyond the box. :)

[AGD]

Russ,

I am very sorry you feel that way. Yes your bolt sits here because we had ONE bolt that was boiled, break. The 4500 systems are sitting here too while we test a half dozen for creep and flow. With the way things are going we are trying to be extra sure. Our current feedback from the forum tells us that if the bolts are going to break it will be in the first 500 shots. We are contemplating shooting every one 500 times.

I have noticed from other posts that you were on the edge because your son is shooting his cocker without hassles while you break paint. Because you have a control right next to you I had you targeted to try one of the new configurations in your Emag.

Maybe I did the wrong thing, and maybe it upset people. My comeback to that is, if I did the same thing every other manufacturer does I wouldn't even be here talking to you. This forum can hurt me more than it can help. The superbolt recall sure pointed that out.

If AGD has failed you then I don't deserve your respect. I know I am sitting here at 3:30 in the morning reading this post because I think what you and everyone else here has to say is important. If you still intend to leave, I understand completely. If you want to give us one more chance you can test the new setup.

Thanks,

Tom

[timebomb]

I don't understand how anyone can be po'd at Tom for playing a little `joke` on the users...I thought it was pretty funny and had a good laugh at both posts. If you guys take it farther then that, well then, you have to get off the computer and look at the real world. There are more companies screwing people over then ever, and to look at this satire of sorts as some sort of insult, you haven't been around long enough.

Mike

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Miscue


Not all of us. I recognized it as pigeon crap immediately. :)

Yes me too and posted as such. I thought he had truly gone nuts. Now I am uncertain as to if my suspicions were true...

[beam]

I still don't see what everyone is all upset about. You know that what Tom posted isn't his true self...right? Hence "putting on hat"

He didn't do this to get everyone convinced that the Crown Point is the best barrel and then go buy one. He did it to see if we would all just blindly rally behind him unconditionally. It could be said that we are a biased group here.

Not everyone on this board just numbly follows what AGD says. Good for us.

[ben_JD]

Well, this has certainly turned into an interesting situation. I was one of the several folks who read Tom's post and really felt as if the site had been hacked or someone got their hands on AGD's password and posted the crown point message. Then, when I looked at the store and saw the barrel, I felt as if something were amiss (coupled with the fact that the barrel was only $20). That all having been said, I was one of the folks who actually bought the barrel. First, I need a new barrel. Second, I knew the crown point to be a good barrel before this entire marketing scheme began. Third, it was only $20.

As for being mislead by AGD, I do have to say that I am a little uneasy with the way it played out. I understand the point he has made and appreciate it. In fact, AGD has been the one voice that consistently has told all to question everything that you hear; and along that vein, he remains consistent. My uneasiness comes into play when you consider some situations of long-time (and short-time) 'Mag users. We have ascertained the trustworthiness of this company and Tom Kaye as a person over the last decade (for me) and until now have had the luxury of not needing to question the motivation of every statement uttered by AGD; we have already made the determination that the source is trustworthy and can dive into the meat of the statement. Temporarily, at least, we are disavowed of this luxury.

I'm not upset with the company nor am I boycotting any product.

Furthermore, I stand by my crown-point barrel order. AGD, I expect it in the mail shortly.

[Riotz]

Originally posted by ben_JD
AGD, I expect it in the mail shortly.

Don't forget about your free parts kit.

[lazyrider77]

"We The Public really have no way of knowing for sure unless we are willing to do some stringent, controlled testing. Even IF we tested them thouroughly, who is to say those variables were unrelated to accuracy, and the real solution isn't something like barrel length?"
I think Drivers point is really a good one. This should be a warning to everyone out there who jumps on the Freak Kit bandwagon and throws bore size into every arguement. There is no "proof" of bore size/accuracy relation. Smart Parts may be doing the same thing Tom did, only they aren't going to admit it. Or, they may actually believe in the concept, that still doesn't make it valid. To me, it is still just a myth.

[beam]

Hmmm. I must be missing something. People act as if this was genuine Tom K. and now their trust in him is tarnished. My trust on the other hand has been strengthened. Tom put us, AO, to the sheep test and we passed. Granted, some of us went baaaa, baaaaa. And you know what the funny thing is, how he went about administering this test is something the REST of the paintball industry does ALL THE TIME. But, we don't boycott them or get all grumpy about it.

Tom...is it just me? I didn't think this thing had anything to do with barrels or marketing.

[OhMyAMoose]

Hahahahahaha, I got a kick out of that thread. I just knew Tom was up to something. I would just like to know how many people orded the barrel. I bet a good number did because it seems like people will do anything Tom says. Now I cant blame them because everything Tom has done seems to be correct. I am glad Tom did this because we need a good wake up call. We need something to keep us in check every now and then.
Thank Tom

[diehard]

I agree with Shartley, this is a dangerous game you just played, Tom... But, I think deciding not to buy from AGD is an extreme reaction.

In my opinion there is enough crap in this world that we must wade through to make this little test anything but funny. It is a good lesson. However, I think the motive behind the lesson was dumb. The whole thing was a bad idea to prove a point. You know what you know about AO'ers, Tom, and you shouldn't feel the need to prove anything about them to anyone. Stick to proving your products are what you say they are (in the opinion of most AO'ers, the best). But it did show us a few things. So, in that sense, your test wasn't all bad.

You would've done better to simply tell people on AO that they need to check everything out, even coming from AGD, and not just blindly beleive everything they hear or read. That would've been more consistant with my perception of you and AGD. Just say it straight.

Russ-
Order your flatline, 'cause it's the best. Don't sweat the BS. Don't let this foolishness stand in the way of getting a truely good product. You know that AGD's valves are the best in the business.

Posted by MantisMag:
...people trying to prove that fictional things could actually happen...

You forgot to include the theory of evolution in your list.