New valve idea?

[SlartyBartFast]

Or is the point that there is so little kick anyways that benefits would be nearly intangiable?

BINGO.

Some people talk as if they're shooting .45 handguns the way they talk about "kick" .

These discussions are ultimately rediculous. The same people clamouring for more "accuracy" use rediculous shooting stances, hold their markers in a bizarre fashion, and rail on the trigger in a manner that does nothing to provide stable shot-to-shot consistency.

Think "no-kick" will help your game? Try a monopod or bi-pod. But even then it'll probably only be your own shaky hands and arms that you'd be compensating for.

I'd like to see this test done one day:

Use a marker with no internals. Instead, fire a laser pointer and record where it hits. Then have a player put as many shots on target as quickly as possible.

Want to bet how wild most of the shots are? Vortex shedding and other random influences on paintballs probably HELP the ultimate accuracy of most paintball shooters.

[Lohman446]

Want to bet how wild most of the shots are? Vortex shedding and other random influences on paintballs probably HELP the ultimate accuracy of most paintball shooters.

Quit giving away my style man. Ok, so let me say that the idea has nothing to do with accuracy, but with ball breakage. Are we to the point that it is so seldom that the benefits of making it less by nth degree would be nearly intangible? There may be an argument for yes too... but I don't really think so. The thing is, it seems any sealing method proposed, or that I can think of, has as much chance of chopping the paintball when sealing the breach as the bolt itself does...

[Jakedubbleya]

Ahh. But all of those "problems" are myths. Or at least have never been shown to exist.

Plus the annoying use of 'venturi' out of context.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...ary&va=venturi

Show that the idea has merit before wasting time and money designing a new firing mechanism.

Changing a gun from closed to open bolt has been shown not to affect accuracy. So the "slamming" effect seems disproven.

If boltless has any accuracy advantage, firing a cocker at a low rate of fire should be superior to firing an "open-bolt" at slow rates of fire. I'm willing to bet that you'd find no difference.

Never implied accuracy differences.

But it must be recognized that high pressure concentrated jets of air COULD cause a bad seam split on a certain low quality ball where it would not happen with a distributed jet of air at the same pressure.

Kick:
Walk an electro spyder.

Then walk a shoebox.

Id say i feel a tad more comfortable with the solid shoebox, not to a great degree, but i think enough to effect my game in certain situations. Not because the shoebox is heavyer and bulkier, but because i feel virtually no kick.
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And how about this benefit; Near-complete efficiency.

Or this one; trigger frame being the only part complicated enough to break.

Or; Smallest, lightest gun yet.
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I dont really have ball chopping problems anymore on eyed guns lohman

Edit: yeah my springloaded gate idea with a hose of the air source behind it so it closes when u fire could very well chop paint. Going to need some eyes for sure.

Although.. IF we cold develop a ball valve of sorts...

such as a trap door that opens and drops paintballs in the chamber, and seals the space between the ball and the air distributor. Hosing releases air, causes door to close and the door does push the ball forward a bit while its closing (maby a stop of some sort at that point) but then the air gets to it and fires the paintball with the chamber sealed, next ball drops in.

[SlartyBartFast]

Ok, so let me say that the idea has nothing to do with accuracy, but with ball breakage. Are we to the point that it is so seldom that the benefits of making it less by nth degree would be nearly intangible? There may be an argument for yes too...

How many times do you break a ball that's due to the bolt and not a barrel burst? Difficult to tell.

Ok, so let me say that the idea has nothing to do with accuracy, but but I don't really think so. The thing is, it seems any sealing method proposed, or that I can think of, has as much chance of chopping the paintball when sealing the breach as the bolt itself does...

Well, I'd say first prove it's a problem, then design the solution.

But that's never stopped anyone in paintball marketing before.

[thefool]

Advantages of bolt-less.

We've decided that kick plays no part

But how about this, boltless can offer the same accuracy of a closed bolt while maintaining an open breech. Sure that doesnt matter for blasing rates of fire but if oyu shooting slow it would be like having a coker that doent need to worry about timing or an unfilled breech. If it were possible to design a wawy to have even the trap door not touch the ball then the only possible ball breakage would be from bad balls because even in cokers, the bolt might break the ball on impact.

And the again what is a barrel break, its either a bad ball that burst at the seem or a good ball that was impacted, became a bad ball and bust at the seam, because if the impact and airflow is constant and the barrle is smooth, how can a ball burst.

So in essence, boltless would be efficiant and reduce barrle breaks and eliminate breech breaks. They would also be as accurate as cokers without being continually colsed, why they havent caught on, it beats me.

[Jakedubbleya]

*cough*

[Joni]

So in essence, boltless would be efficiant and reduce barrle breaks and eliminate breech breaks. They would also be as accurate as cokers without being continually colsed, why they havent caught on, it beats me.

Prepare for the flames :)
Closed bolt has been pretty much proven to help with nothing else than getting barrel roll outs.

[thefool]

Prepare for the flames :)
Closed bolt has been pretty much proven to help with nothing else than getting barrel roll outs.

but but.... screw it ill let someone else take this im sure someone will

[Jakedubbleya]

but but.... screw it ill let someone else take this im sure someone will

doubt it.

[ThePixelGuru]

The problem with a boltless design is that it's a bit more complicated to do than a design with a bolt. A trapdoor's more of a pain, and you have to make the blast of air less sudden or you'll break balls. Take the linking arm out of a 98 Custom and it'll break every ball in there - the relative velocity of the air to the ball is just too great. Sure they're be less kick, and it might cycle a little faster because of the reduced movement, but I don't think it's worth it. Besides, do we really need faster markers? Look at the current speeds that markers with bolts can hit.