New field , no insurance?

[emaggot4life]

I work with this guy that started a PB field with this other guy that has tons of land. They got raped buying there start up stuff (like 6 grand for 20 pirannas with 12oz co2, hoppers... you get the idea). I went to the field to see if it was worth playing at and seen them crono at 310. I asked about it and was told "that way we can hit at long range". I was like "what does your insurance company have to say about that" and they kinda changed the subject. Come to find out a week later they have no insurnce, no busisness licence and no tax ID. What kind of trouble are they looking at. ( I really want to play there cause they have an AWSOME field setup, and cheap prices).

[Minority]

I would rather not go into the specifics of what can go wrong, but they better sure as hell get the licenses, and FORCE everyone that plays there sign a waiver
I don't know bout insurance, but running a bisness without licences is very very bad.
Waviers should stop insurance problems.
Anyone that even walks on property should have to sign one, or leave.

[shartley]

Waviers should stop insurance problems.

[kutter]

I am sure that some attorney will chime in with the 'legalise' involved here but after speaking to a couple of friends of mine who are attorneys, the consensus was that a waiver does not mean squat. Essentially any attorney worth his salt can beat it every time.

No insurance, I would think hard about that before I played there.

[Minority]

"Waviers should stop insurance problems.
Anyone that even walks on property should have to sign one, or leave."

Never say anything without refering to its context.
Bad bad idea...

Waviers are a legal document, and they stop all forms of sueing unless the judge is stupid.
Make observers sign, and if they don't sign in, they are not allowed to watch.
Note: I did not say pay.
I INCLUDED everyone and anyone on that property.
Have a sign in parking lot they aren't responsible for any injurys, sign in proshop, and at every field entrance.

[shartley]

Minority

Never say anything without refering to its context.
Bad bad idea...

Yes, I agree.. I took what you said slightly out of context. I am sorry for that.. that is something I seldom ever do.

With that said..

Waviers are a legal document, and they stop all forms of sueing unless the judge is stupid.

[irbodden]

To be honest I don't see a problem with playing at their field. I play at outlaw paintball on occasion, and its the same the same diffrence as your situation. Although if they don't follow standard saftey precautions, you ARE putting yourself at risk. You wouldn't have much ground on them at court either.

However, I would NEVER consider letting any one else on that field. If they thought they were going to start a bussiness with $6000 they are utter morons.

Keep it safe!

[shartley]

irbodden

To be honest I don't see a problem with playing at their field. I play at outlaw paintball on occasion, and its the same the same diffrence as your situation.

[irbodden]

Originally posted by shartley
irbodden

See the next paragraph of my post?

There isn't a problem if YOU play on it as their friend, but strangers shouldn't not be playing on it.

[shartley]

irbodden

[ben_JD]

Originally posted by Minority
"Waviers [sic] should stop insurance problems...Waviers [sic] are a legal document, and they stop all forms of sueing [sic] unless the judge is stupid.

All due respect, Minority, waivers are not the panacea that many think that they are. Any time you ask someone to affirmatively forfeit their rights through contractual obligation, that contract (e.g. written waiver) will come under intense legal scrutiny. When reading these documents, they are interpreted in favor of the non-drafting party. The party that wrote the document will not have the benefit of the doubt if an ambiguity in the document is uncovered.

Furthermore, waivers have little to do with insurance problems. True, it is typically the insurance companies that require the waivers in the first place, but not having insurance is a bigger problem for the consumer. For instance, due to the gross negligence of the operator of the field, you suffer a significant physical injury. In the instance you have outlined, the operators of the field probably don't have too much in the line of liquid assets to help you pay your medical bills; therefor you would look to their liability insurance carrier to make you whole. If they do not have insurance, you are left with an injury and the field merely goes out of business.

In a nutshell, I would recommend that if they truly are not insured you look to another venue for your paintball hobby.

[ShinyGuy]

On waivers: If I don't sign a waiver and hurt myself at your field I can sue you because you didn't stop me from hurting myself (ain't our legal system great ). If I do sign the waiver I can't sue you for something I do but I can still claim that you were in some way negligent (didn't clear stray brush, ref didn't provide adequate assistance, etc.). If the field is well run I'm not likely to win this case but the costs of the lawsuit will likely put the field out of business. Even if you have a air-tight waiver (you don't. You may have close but you always miss something) you still need the insurance to handle the legal issues.

Waivers are a good thing and can help a lot in court but they are, by no means, a complete solution.

[MicroB]

New Field

I'm in the process of opening my own field as well, and these guys are going about it all wrong. Regardless of any waiver no matter how it is written, there are to many things that can happen that YOU AS A FIELD OWNER AND OPERATOR are liable for. As Shartley said things are different when its a buisness. The worst part is the insurance isn't that expensive compared to a lawsuit, or even the price of the guns. On average paintball insurance depending on amount covered is 15-50 cents per person per day played. Your home owners insurance doesn't cover your buisness. As for playing there do at your own risk. I wouldn't want to be bunkered with anything shooting over 300 fps.

Thx, B

[Restola]

and if you dont have any insurance who is going to be paying the laywer to tell the idiot judge that the person signed the waiver?

you will.

[kenshinkandon]

Being a pre-law student, I would like to let you all know that one great thing most corporations in the entertainment sector do is include a clause on any ticket purchased by a customer. It usually states that with the purchase of the ticket, you wave all rights to bring criminal or negligence charges against the seller of the ticket. If anyone skis or boards at all, take a look at the back of your ticket and you'll see what I am talking about.

Usually, there is also a larger more detailed document stating the rules, regulations, and contract agreement. This is what most of us are signing when we go to play at a field.

Just my .02