Why Does AGD Barely Market Itself?

[Lohman446]

I know I'm suggesting engineering things, but it has to do with marketing. Marketing is listening to what the consumer wants and applying it in your advertisement. It's all about responding to the customer. Right now the customer wants eguns. And the way to market that is thru tourney. They've got to spend money to make it. Bite the bulet and get back in there. Field a good tourny team like pride again and get some coverage.

The thing is in business, when you are knew, you don't worry so much about being sued and loosing everything. TK is ready to retire, loosing everything would be devastating to him and the family he has an obligation to. Like it or not, younger more impulsive people, with less at stake are more likely to take those big steps.

Dangers (risk) factors
1) Making a marker to compete with todays super ramping markers would likely mean you would have to make one that did not meet ASTM standards. IF something happens you are going to be held liable in civil court. I have also pointed out, in other threads, the dangers of being on the wrong side of criminal negligence.
2) SP or WDP may sue you for violation of patents. These patents don't seem to be exceptionally well defined, or who holds them being defined.
3) The investment into the design of soemthing to compete
4) The investment into marketting (in its various forms) to try to take market share.

Reward
1) A possible share of a marketplace that is already overly saturated. Between Dye, SP, NPS, ICD, Angel, Eclipse.. how much space is there to take market share?

To me.. the risk to reward ratio does not favor marketing to the tournament crowd

[Paintcheck200]

AGD's ignorance of what business really means is what has put them where they are now.. People have said what you've said over and over. I was once a very proud mag owner, I still love my RT, but Have moved on. I'm not waiting around for AGD to finally come around and do 'business' .. Flame if you want, doubt I'll read it all.. Just replying to original post.

It's kinda too little, too late right now.

Totally

[mark_1791]

TK is ready to retire, loosing everything would be devastating to him and the family he has an obligation to.

Umm...TK did retire...

[Lohman446]

Umm...TK did retire...

TK sold the inventory - watch posts. He asked for something to be faxed to him at AGD just last week. He still holds the patents from what I understand. He still has the non-paintball AGD to worry about, he still has Perfect Circle to be concerned with.

I don't know the internal workings of AGD well enough to know what exactly happened, what was sold, what was not, and who runs what.

Nothing against anyone, but is AGD really AGD if TK is not there?

[JRingold]

I don't understand...

The one thing I don't understand... CCI (The Phantom) still has an ad in popular paintball magazines, AGD doesn't. Just food for thought.

[ApexAZ]

I think if AGD markets anything it should be a new marker.

[Teamslayer76]

I do not belive AGD does need to advertise. I belive people will fin out about AGD from quality products. Built from the best parts to the best specs. All for the best performance. When they build a product base those people will continulally shoot AGD markers hence building the base more and more. Build the company more and more. Also in the last 10 minutes I've read several posts about how people have had there lvl 6 mag for 6 years! Or I own every AGD gun from the Automag to the Sydarm to the pump mag. But I'm not saying that It wouldn't help AGD its just not really needed. The product base has been built. It's done and 75% of that base will likely still use mags, if not more.

[Lohman446]

I do not belive AGD does need to advertise. I belive people will fin out about AGD from quality products. Built from the best parts to the best specs. All for the best performance.

Define performance? There are markers that shoot quicker than mags, that are more efficient, and htat are just as small.

[ICP]

I do not belive AGD does need to advertise. I belive people will fin out about AGD from quality products. Built from the best parts to the best specs. All for the best performance. When they build a product base those people will continulally shoot AGD markers hence building the base more and more. Build the company more and more. Also in the last 10 minutes I've read several posts about how people have had there lvl 6 mag for 6 years! Or I own every AGD gun from the Automag to the Sydarm to the pump mag. But I'm not saying that It wouldn't help AGD its just not really needed. The product base has been built. It's done and 75% of that base will likely still use mags, if not more.

Your right, AGD does have there market base right now. I'm sure they've had it for 15yrs. But by not advertising and relying on word of mouth. It is a very slow process. And what about the millions of new people that try paintball. Word of mouth will not spread faster than TV/Magazines/hype. There has to be advertising to stay competitive.

[Number13]

There has to be advertising to stay competitive.

I agree. While the number of consumers in the paintball market has rapidly grown over the last few years, AGD's market share has not grown at nearly the same rate. For a company that offers one of the best markers for a traditional-style paintballer, they have a relatively small consumer base, however loyal.

And since they've created such a durable and lasting product, which is one reason for their popularity with current owners, maintaining the loyalty of their consumer base will not be enough. Being content with those who are current owners and not seeking to expand will leave them trying to stay in business off of supplying replacement parts.

And as to word of mouth, they are too rapidly losing market share to rely on word of mouth to turn them a profit. They have to keep their current customers happy and supplying good reviews, but they also need to reveal themselves to the masses and say what they have to offer, in their own words. In other product industries, a person who has a good experience with a company is likely to tell around 3 people; a person who has a negative experience is likely to tell around 12 people. How will word of mouth alone win against all the people who, through a lack of information, believe the automag to be an out-dated and uncompetitive design with serious flaws?

[punkncat]

AGD has had its hayday. It has been the predominant tourney marker in its past. Now what makes it a viable grass roots company is that they can spend little on advertizing and still sell product to discerning customers who recognize quality in a time proven product.

AGD has made a marker that can compete with anything even near its class. The X valve marker truly can compete with anything. With a properly tuned RT you can shoot enough paint to lane. The LX is as good if not better than any set of eyes.

Saving overhead through the lack of advertising seems to be a good way to maintain the success with the customer base they have. This may be an old design, but those who know their stuff cannot discount the simplicity and pure effectiveness of the design. Everyone is calling for a new better thing. But when you come down to it, its hard to improve on that which is already where it needs to be. The Mag is as tourney ready a design as it needs to be. Especially when you consider the 15BPS cap.....

Only bad thing is that new players have been brainwashed into thinking they need an Electro to compete. If not for this patent issue concering "E" markers.... imagine a slightly cheaper "Xmag" sans the battery pack, a bit lighter and with the popular ramping modes.....did someone say mass produced, hyped, Devilmags? AGD factory Eframe? Pneumag? ..... its only a court case away really. The design is already there, just need a legal break.

[Miscue]

Only bad thing is that new players have been brainwashed into thinking they need an Electro to compete. If not for this patent issue concering "E" markers.... imagine a slightly cheaper "Xmag" sans the battery pack, a bit lighter and with the popular ramping modes.....did someone say mass produced, hyped, Devilmags? AGD factory Eframe? Pneumag? ..... its only a court case away really. The design is already there, just need a legal break.

I think this is a moot point now... with markers like the Ion and what is to follow. I don't like suggesting a $150 cheap gun to someone who wants to play several times a year. Heck, before I didn't like to suggest a $300 new marker - I might say to get a used XYZ marker for around $300, if anything. These new inexpensive markers change all this. You don't get significantly better performance without spending a lot of extra dough.

[Target Practice]

*cough* Ford Pantera *cough*

[VFX_Fenix]

AGD needs to advertise, they also need a product which can compete (in terms of the modern mind set) with markers that are in its price range, and the thing that ultimately will keep AGD floating here if they don't advertise will be 3rd party companies like Pro-Team Products. The Mag user base feels old and tired, it wants something more from AGD but it just isn't getting it. The RT is an old gun that isn't tournament legal (yes, even the X Valved RT Pro is an old gun). The design is rock solid, then again... so is the Autococker.

WGP and AGD are both old companies that have lasted through the "age" of paintball, however WGP still continues to advertise, they continue to make improvements (like AGD with the Level 10 and X Valve), they continue to REPACKAGE the same Autococker with new milling/colors and the Autococker is cheaper than a similarly dressed RT Custom.

Consider;
An 04 Autococker stock from PBGear.com is $329

An RT Custom from WWA is $325

Now that's great, but then add in the cost of a ULE Body and Inteliframe or Y Frame for those that don't want the stock single trigger frame or twistlock body and suddenly the RT Custom costs $425 to have the look and functionality of the Autococker.

The RPG Paradigm is $439

Solution -
Make the ULE body and Inteliframe/Y-Frame options stock on the RT Customs and still charge $325 for the marker.

AGD is not only marketing itself out of business, it's over pricing itself as well. In order to get a flashy body vs. the Stainless Steel main body granted is $20 though it should be stock on the comany's "non-entry level" gun, but not offering a double trigger frame stock is insane. Name ONE company out there that still doesn't offer a double trigger on even its base model that ISN'T a pump or scenario gun. The DOuble Trigger upgrade was fine in the day, but now it shouldn't be an "upgrade" but a standard item on the gun.

Consider also WGP's heirarchy of semi-auto guns -
Trillogy - Basic and bottom line - Flashy Body ~$200
Autococker - Updated version of the original - Flashy Body - Hinge Trigger ~$330
Outcast - Upgraded pneumatics - Flashy Body - Hinge Trigger ~$320
VF-Tactical - Scenario Gun - Custom Body - Hinge Trigger ~$500
Super Stock - E-version of Autococker - Flashy Body ~$640
Nightcast - E-version of upgraded Cocker - Flashy Body ~$900
Karnivorr - Top of the line WGP Cocker - Flashy Body ~$1100

AGD -
Pro Classic - Basic and bottom line $220
RT Custom - Upgraded valve and bolt $325
TAC ONE - Scenario Gun - Custom Body - Inteliframe ~$425
E-Mag - E-Version of upgraded Mag - Flashy Body $900
X-Mag - Top of the line AGD Mag - Flashy body $1100

I don't know if anyone's going to understand what the point of the comparison was... anyway...

Bottom line - AGD Needs to Advertise, use WGP as a model if they have to, but it needs to be done. Name and product recognition in the market are severly laking, the first time I played with my RT Custom at a local field no one even knew what a Mag was, they didn't know what the thing was period. If this scene had happend.... I dunno... 5 years ago, I'd bet that at least most of the people at the field would have heard of AGD and at least some of them would have known what a Mag was. Even 2 years ago.

[Army]

*cough* Ford Pantera *cough*

Finally came around, Ryan?

Good point. The Pantera was Ford's Automag. 351 Cleveland, over 300 horsepower, race ready from the factory but made for the street...never heard of it? Yup, Ford never advertised it, only word of mouth got it known to discerning buyers. Built from 1971 to 1994, designed by Tomaso (same guy who designs Ferrari's and Lamborghini's). Loyal owners to a fault, rarely selling them.

Anything sound familiar here yet?

Basic design never changed, only the engine and running gear was upgraded/dated. Although they can hold their own against nearly all of the worlds best known speedsters...nobody knows about them....because they were never formally advertised in public.

Now is it sounding familiar?

I too, feel an advertising assault that bonuses the valve speed and LX attributes would do wonders for the 'Mag image. Scenario is ripe for dedicated equipment, and the 'Mag is perfect for woodsball. I'm not discounting it for tourney play, but lets face it...if it doesn't have Dynasty's stamp of approval, ballers and noobs will ignore it still.

BTW, the Pantera has always been my dream car to own....hopefully a 1983 GT5 with the blown 351 Windsor in it. wheeeeeee!