Why Does AGD Barely Market Itself?

[bound for glory]

ok, fair enough. but why adg just does'nt do something like the devilmag upgrade is beyound me... i mean, really, thay can do that anyway. and they would have a rippin' product. my emag goes, but its an anchor. ule or not. talk about outdated concepts, that battery pack has got to go.

[Number13]

What good is an ad going to do if there are few dealers that stock the marker?

I'd argue that dealers don't stock them because there isn't demand. If AGD educates consumers about their product and company, demand for their product will increase (because consumers will recognize the quality of the product once introduced to it and, I predict, want to but AGD markers). With a demand present, dealers will once again stock mags.

I argue that AGD first must advertise itself and then reclaim shelf space, not the other way around. In fact, I believe it near impossible to do in the opposite order.

edit:

Maybe because there's nothing new to market?

I agree with VFX_Fenix. They need to market their company, not a new engineering design. They have a product, a proven product that has many desiarable features. But few people are buying it because they do not know enough about the product. They need to market what they have, not make something new to sell.

[MadPSIence]

I asked 2 dealers today why they don't stock mags. wanna know the consistent answer I get?

"ugly"

I don't blame them. Non-Custom mags are fugly as crap.

[Lohman446]

I agree with VFX_Fenix. They need to market their company, not a new engineering design. They have a product, a proven product that has many desiarable features. But few people are buying it because they do not know enough about the product. They need to market what they have, not make something new to sell.

This is where I disagree. AGD has lost market space because of peoples perception of the current product, and even the most advanced markers are not different enough for people to take note.

The automag in its current form, to me and a lot of other players, is missing something Sure some may disagree, but look around you and ask.
1) break beam eyes - say what you want about LX, I compare it to COPS and SENSEI - maybe it worked better, but it still wasn't eyes. Look at the resurgance of Angels with eyes - to some degree.
2) a normal battery - not this 18V thing up front. I would prefer 9 volts in the grip but something like the Angel would be OK...
3) Efficiency. Actually I think a lot of people would live with this

Story... the last time I owned my e-mag (nothing against mags, this one is cursed to me, the person I sold it to had awesome luck with it until I used it again a few weeks ago.. then it broke again). I was trying to get this thing to not chop.. like in the video, tuning the LX to the edge of performance. It was a sickly fast marker, and I admit that my problems were because I pushed the edge of performance. Anyways, I had been messing with it for several weeks, and this week it was going to be right. After I was in the shop for th fifth time that day, I looked at the owner and told him to order me a Shocker... I was sick of shims, o-rings, carriers...

My Shocker was faster (in legal modes, insane in rebound), easier to adjust the trigger, single tube low profile, as efficient as the mag, able to shoot lower into teh tank, had an effective eye, etc.

It took a lot to convince me to go back to AGD for a DevilMag... and it was these boards that did it. If I had done it solely to be different I would have found a cyborg, or had someone make me a custom Shocker - Coolhands vertical Shocker got a lot of my attention.

The point is, to me, AGD needs to drop the mag name IF THEY ARE GOING TO GO INTO THE TOURNAMETN SCENE. While it is remembered fondly there are also people who saw it eclipsed and have moved away. Make something new, something different, and something surprising.

Then again, you have already seen my opinion of pushing for he tournament scene. The mag has attributes that can work in the scenario market - they are known as tanks (though I think LX and the need for many of us to consantly tune it isn't helping there), they could be accesseraized, there are a possibilities. AGD could be the "Dye" of the scenario market...

Please note, my viewpoints are given from an outsiders view. I do not know enough about AGD, there financial standings, patent issues, or any number of things to give a well considered opinion. It is based on a very small amount of information, and my own perceptions rather than quatitative data and studies

[bound for glory]

you ask " if the guy making devilmags is doing it, whats the differance"? gees, i don't know... how about a wait list that seems to streach forever. if the wait was'nt so long, ga devil would have emag#169(my gun) and a money order for $350. but thats besides the point. what i'm saying is if agd is not going to do much of anything else, upgrade the stuff they already market. and imho, the whole ule line is a joke. my emag is all ule. its too heavy. like i've said, i can buy any gun i want. i shoot agd. because 1 i'm not a supergun freak 2 i'm loyal to agd 3 i'm too old, stubborn and prideful to change. and i thaink agd is a great company and has a damn fine product line. i'd really like to know the real reason tom left the company...

[Jack & Coke]

...and imho, the whole ule line is a joke. my emag is all ule. its too heavy...

too heavy?

from: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght+comparison







My ULE EMAG (a.k.a Tunamax) = 48.5 oz = 3 lbs.

(remember this includes Secondary Reg, ASA, and hoses)

There are many reasons why EMAG's are not liked and are not good money makers for dealers...

(i.e. old technology, looks, below average efficiency, no A.C.E., etc.)

...but the excuse "it's too heavy" is a little exaggerated.

Now if you compare it to an ego or 03 style shocker... well...

[Number13]

perceived performance and attributes. The company and product is a mystery to most paintballers, who simply need to be informed. Or so I believe.

Please note, my viewpoints are given from an outsiders view. I do not know enough about AGD, there financial standings, patent issues, or any number of things to give a well considered opinion. It is based on a very small amount of information, and my own perceptions rather than quatitative data and studies

That goes for me as well. Thank you for making sure to point that out.

[Lohman446]

I was careful to go back and clarify tournament market for a reason. As stated before I don't think a risk to return anaysis favors pushing into the tournament scene. I think AGD, aside from some add ons to a scenario favored marker (DevilMag style) will support the bit of tournament niche that AGD has.

I think they stand a chance in the scenario market - pushing a high end scenario marker considering there prices are higher than most other scenario base markers. IT may be the way to go, but I think they need to do something different than what they do now

[Scott Hudnall]

AGD's ignorance of what business really means is what has put them where they are now..

I generally stay out of these discussions....only read these types of threads with some level of amusement. But this statement is totally ignorant in itself.

[JKR]

Everyone assumes that because AGD has contracted in the market, they are suffering financially. Perhaps they have good margins on the products they do sell and see paintball as just "filler" between runs for their other products. You know, something between those government contracts...

It makes some sense to me to lay low while the dust settles in the paintball world. Right now, I believe the industry is ready for some significant changes. With rampant BPS problems as well as velocity ramping, there could be a big change lurking. Why devote R&D time to products that may well be defunct in two or three years?

Unless you have inside information regarding future industry trends or access to AGD's books, I wouldn't make any assumptions about AGD's future in paintball. Businesses, all of them, are cyclical. Someday soon, you may read about a bleak future predicted for SP or K2.

JKR

[Number13]

Lohman466, I apologise--I didn't read your post carefully enough.

You raise a good argument about the relative price of a mag to other scenario markers. I've been writing with the assumption that the current features are worth the price, and also that increased production runs will help lower the prices further, which I'd expect to follow an increase in sales after an initial marketing campaign.

But is there enough demand for a Devilmag-style marker among scenario players? I suspect that the majority of players would be happy with a ULT TAC-ONE style marker (although the TAC-ONE is in need of improvements itself, as has been noted above and elsewhere).

I would like to again invite any employees of AGD who have worked with the company's marketing decisions and processes to add to the conversation. You could dispel a lot of our speculations and perhaps guide us to more productive brainstorming. And not to mention, AO loves to hear from its gods.

Added:

Everyone assumes that because AGD has contracted in the market, they are suffering financially. Perhaps they have good margins on the products they do sell and see paintball as just "filler" between runs for their other products. You know, something between those government contracts...

JKR has a good point. Are we just twiddling our thumbs? Is it that AGD does not want to dissapoint current customers and so remain in the paintball business and keep the AO going, but have no interest in expanding in the paintball market right now? I forget how much other stuff the company has since I'm so focused on its paintball products. Again, any guidance from the company itself on this?

[LONEWOLFOO1]

I Just bought a tac one all i am concerned about is parts and customers services. i did not even know that agd does other things than paintball. if thats the case then they could be a small company. i thought that agd was falling apart but if they have other investments and paintball is just a fun thing for them then i could live with the current state of the company.

[Lohman446]

I Just bought a tac one all i am concerned about is parts and customers services. i did not even know that agd does other things than paintball. if thats the case then they could be a small company. i thought that agd was falling apart but if they have other investments and paintball is just a fun thing for them then i could live with the current state of the company.

Wild speculation from an outside view and a limited knowledge of AGD's structure and ownership.

TK / AGD also has investments involving military contracts and applying equipment

Perfect Circle paintball is another investment using plastic shelled paintballs meant for police and military use

I beleive they make some police and military use pepperballs

The FN303 less lethal launcher as used by police and military is at least somehow involved wtih AGD

I don't think AGD is in danger of going out anytime soon financially. My hope is that they stay involved with paintball almost as a hobby, it doesn't have to be wildly profitable. Thats why I was always comfortable with TK, I don't think he would just let us go.

As for everything but valves I think there are possible outside vendors who know the tolerances if need be - the o-rings could be found, and I think if AGD where going out of paintball its last grand gesture might be to sell or distributoe the X-valve tolerances and schematics to some of its techs or dealers (tuna, rogue, logic, etc) giving us all the parts we would need to continue makign our mags work indefinetly.

I'm not at all concerned about my mag still being functional in five years (maybe longer). Then I will decide on what my next marker is. LOL.. yeh right, like I won't buy something new next year

[LONEWOLFOO1]

Cool i am glad to hear that are going to be around they could stay as a small company. my gun budget has always been 4/5 years because technolgy has change that much and it at least take 2/3 years to be proven tech. i don't play much problay 5 times a year so its not worth it to me to by a new gun every year. my last gun is a bm2k in which i bought it in 2000 i was going to upgrade it to pds a newer soleniod but to make it compete with the newer guns out there but from my limited research it would cost me about 300 stock. i think a bm2k in 2000 could only shoot 13 bps so to least shoot 20 or better i could just buy a new gun.