whats up with people buying lower end guns ?

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  • phantomhitman
    ao's official bad guy
    • Oct 2003
    • 1841

    #16
    ill put it to both of you as fair as possible
    if you had the choice between a stock dm5 or an ion, both for free, which would you take?
    none of this but or what if crap attached, just plain simple stock guns on both sides. you cant say i would get the dm5 and sell it and buy my whole team ions either........
    also, a dm5-new timmy-etc outperforms an ion on so many levels
    looks-eye of the beholder there, but the upperend guns have it imo
    speed-no cap on high end guns, easy to attain speed legally and keep it there (better, smoother trigger system and trigger geometry)
    consistent-ion reg is decent, but not like the +-5 fps i get with my dm5 (therefore add mroe money for a reg for the ion)
    hype-oh god, this is a tough one. i hyped up $1400 gun or a over hyped $300 gun
    stock parts-high end guns have decent regs, barrels, adj feedenecks, and other do hickeys. low end guns have hardly any, if at all, of these features. that is how they keep teh cost down.
    size, weight, and comfort-also in the eyes of the beholder. some people want more solid markers, others want it as light as possible.

    i understand, and agree, that the player makes the game, not the gun. but i do not agree %100 on that, there are always exceptions to the rule. there is quite the difference in paintball (as it pertains to the civic vs ferrar analogyi). take your entry level stock spyder, and put it up against a dm5-timmy-etc. and the high end gun will outperform it on every level. but just like cars it depends of who drives it to get the most out of it. But you could always dump hundereds of dollars into a spyder and make it just as fast, but guess what, its still a spyder. MOST more expensive guns are made out of better materials, have better overall performance, and have the "ambiance" of the upper end of the paintball world. some people get high end guns to compete, others to show off. what ever floats your boat
    my feedback
    countdown on devilmag day........ill let you now

    Comment

    • Lohman446
      Useful posts: 7
      • Jun 2003
      • 9315

      #17
      Here's where the Ion excels, in a feature to feature comparison
      Originally posted by phantomhitman
      looks-eye of the beholder there, but the upperend guns have it imo
      This could go either way on this feature as you said

      Originally posted by phantomhitman
      speed-no cap on high end guns, easy to attain speed legally and keep it there (better, smoother trigger system and trigger geometry)
      The ion actually has a pretty nice trigger, and with ramping 15BPS is easily obtained

      Originally posted by phantomhitman
      consistent-ion reg is decent, but not like the +-5 fps i get with my dm5 (therefore add mroe money for a reg for the ion)
      This is where I thought the Ion would suck - mine out of the box was +/-3 over teh chron, and still is

      Originally posted by phantomhitman
      hype-oh god, this is a tough one. i hyped up $1400 gun or a over hyped $300 gun
      Hmm... there both hyped hard...

      Originally posted by phantomhitman
      stock parts-high end guns have decent regs, barrels, adj feedenecks, and other do hickeys. low end guns have hardly any, if at all, of these features. that is how they keep teh cost down.
      I was pretty surprised on the reg as stated - the barrel is as accurate as any honed aluminum tube (actually was surprised, pretty good) and it comes with an o-ring adjustable feedneck. Pretty good for the cheap marker PS I replaced the feedneck with a CCM no-pro, I had ordered before I even saw the Ion. And I would have used this feedneck on any high end marker I bought so replacement of the feedneck would have been done on any marker

      Originally posted by phantomhitman
      size, weight, and comfort-also in the eyes of the beholder. some people want more solid markers, others want it as light as possible.
      The ion is pretty solid feeling - at least the few I have tried. It is of reasonable weight, again a preference can go any direction.


      This is why the Ion is doing as well as it does, in side by side comparison teh only shortcoming seems to be the 17BPS cap - which who really attains 17BPS on single trigger pull single shot setups anyways? You are right though, I miss some of they hype, some of the looks.
      "Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess

      Comment

      • TheTramp
        Registered User
        • Jan 2001
        • 4019

        #18
        I'm suprised no one has mentioned the gun whore aspect.

        I don't think you'll see a lot of the higher level (not including pro/free gun guys who can't change) tournament players selling their timmys, shockers, trixes, etc to buy Ions. It's the guys who probably spend more time trading guns then playing that are doing this. They'll sell the Ion and spend more as soon as the next new thing comes out after playing with the Ion possible once or twice.
        "Relax. Don't worry. Have a Home Brew."
        -Charlie Papazian

        Feedback: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...threadid=40134

        Comment

        • bound for glory
          retired bootboy
          • Sep 2004
          • 368

          #19
          imho you can bla bla bla all you want about bps. bps is bs to me...i'm with lohman on this one. lets all remember what 1 second really is. and i shot 2 ions and i would'nt give up my emag for 5 of em. they feel like they were put togeather by monkeys. and i like monkeys

          Comment

          • SlartyBartFast
            The Flying Scotsman
            • Jun 2002
            • 2940

            #20
            Originally posted by phantomhitman
            if you had the choice between a stock dm5 or an ion, both for free, which would you take?
            But that's not the comparison that has to be made.

            If somebody is giving out stuff for free any fool would take the most expensive one (unless it was known to be defective).

            The comparison is between:
            - 1000$ marker

            OR

            - 300$ marker + 700$ in paint and field fees

            If you're not vain, that's one reason not to spend 700$ extra on a marker. 15bps is the top allowed by those rules that caved to ramping markers, so more is pointless (and even 15bps is stupidy expensive to keep up with IMO).

            Now you're left with how each feels, whether any differnce in feel is worth 700$, and whether the 1000$ marker is 700$ more durable and reliable than the 300$ marker.

            Comment

            • phantomhitman
              ao's official bad guy
              • Oct 2003
              • 1841

              #21
              i understand where everyone is coming from. i am playing devils advocate here. the comparison i made between the dm5(any other high end gun) and the ion (any other low end gun) was strictly for the one person that said that there is not a difference in the 2.

              i can tell you right now i can walk the trigger (%100 percent legal, no bounce or ramp) on my devilmag faster than my dm5. and i can walk my dm5 faster than an ion. i hate low end guns triggers, trigger geometry, and firing systems (microswitches). they are pure crap imo. while i do agree that most of the mid to high end guns now are capable of the majestic 15 bps some are WAY easier to attain a legal, one shot per pull, speed than others.

              everyone forgets that hardly anyone here, or at most practices, and at most tournies, are not in the 15bps capped ramping category. so saying an ion is jsut as fast as a dm5 is not completely true. while you may like it, ill keep my guns.
              my feedback
              countdown on devilmag day........ill let you now

              Comment

              • fire1811
                Firefighter
                • Nov 2002
                • 4930

                #22
                trend is why people are selling guns.

                I hate trends
                "The Few Who Do Are The Envy Of The Many Who Only Stand And Watch"

                Alway Remember *343*

                Si vis pacem, para bellum

                Comment

                • ICP
                  Who needs two tubes??
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 424

                  #23
                  Originally posted by phantomhitman
                  ...

                  i can tell you right now i can walk the trigger (%100 percent legal, no bounce or ramp) on my devilmag faster than my dm5. and i can walk my dm5 faster than an ion. i hate low end guns triggers, trigger geometry, and firing systems (microswitches). they are pure crap imo ....

                  While I could care less about who thinks what is better and hype for any gun. I buy what I like and shoot it, till I like something better.

                  If those timmys,dm5,etc. don't use the "crappy" microswitches to activate the firing sequence, what do they use?



                  EDIT:::: I guess some use optic sensors, but the devil and timmies use microswitches.
                  Last edited by ICP; 03-31-2005, 07:22 PM.

                  Comment

                  • hitech
                    Not a shedder of vortices
                    • Nov 2001
                    • 4775

                    #24
                    Originally posted by txaggie08
                    Why is it neccessary for everyon to be a critic of spelling and grammar on the internet.
                    Well, in general poor spelling and grammer make it harder to read.


                    Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                    Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                    The only Hitech Lubricant

                    Comment

                    • phantomhitman
                      ao's official bad guy
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 1841

                      #25
                      um, they use micro switches........
                      but they also have MUCH SMOOTHER triggers (ex-ball bearing rollers), MUCH better mechanical settings for them (magnets, springs, start and stops that are easily accessbile), and MUCH better electronic control (from debounce, to amb, to trigger sampling) of the trigger system. try walking a stock emag trigger....big and clunky....hard to do.....that is why people buy blade triggers if they want any type of speed out of them. and yes , i know, some people like them just fine. the triggers are also set up for speed (the geometry of them) in my opinion, but that is only if you liek that type of trigger. if you say the ion trigger can be setup just as well as a dm5-devilmag, then you have lost your mind in MY opinion.
                      im done with this thread now, everyone have a nice day/night
                      my feedback
                      countdown on devilmag day........ill let you now

                      Comment

                      • guysdaman
                        Bitte Ein Bitt
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 391

                        #26
                        I can't help but jump in here....you have a point about if I could get both for free which would i pick...duh the dm5 of course! But when people have to spend there hard earned cash they want the best bang for there buck and i think the ION provides that...With some mods to the gun it can be very nice! Here is a pic of mine.

                        2005 Smart Parts ION
                        QEV Mod
                        CP Reg
                        Q-Lock Feedneck
                        BetterOne Delrin Scythe Trigger
                        Hybrid Lady Grips
                        4500 psi 68 ci Dynaflow attached with a cp rail
                        .689 Stiffi Barel
                        Smoke Halo b

                        I can easily pull 15 bps on this marker without ramping....

                        The only reason I bought this was to have something to play with while my DevilMag is being built.

                        "Freedom is never Free!"
                        My AO Feedback Thread
                        My Ebay Feedback

                        Comment

                        • gc82000
                          LNIB just a few scratches
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 1346

                          #27
                          Originally posted by guysdaman
                          looks nice to me.
                          I am a declared Carb lover.

                          Member and president of the Anti-Atkins Group.

                          Advocate for the promotion of Rice, the truest sticky icky.

                          Comment

                          • 93civiccpe
                            Registered User
                            • Feb 2005
                            • 572

                            #28
                            Hey,
                            I got to try an ion a couple weeks ago. The ones in all-black don't look quite as plasticy as the bright colored ones. As far as how well it played, it was alright, but I wasn't very fond of the trigger. Did it feel like it was going to fall apart on me?? No. Was I impressed with it?? Well, I would say it is a good buy for 285. Am I selling my cocker or mag to get one? -No. I think a lot of what is happening is that a lot of older players who used to be big-time tourney/team players are now getting in college/getting older and no longer playing teamplay. Whereas it is nice to have an emag/angel/timmy/e-cocker... etc when they can make it to a pick-up or local game, it just seems more cost efficient to sell your gun for 700 or so dollars and buy an ion for 285. Now you have around 400 dollars to spend either on playing or on the other costs that come along with life.

                            I haven't seen many tournament players selling guns to get an ion. I've seen a few pick them up as backups or fun guns. Very rarely am I seeing people sell upper end guns for next to nothing just to get an ion. Those are usually younger kids who are trying to follow a trend. When you see that happen, get a great deal on an upper end gun and turn around and sell it on ebay. (or pm me so I can.. lol). If i had seen an ebladed cocker go for 300 I'm pretty sure I would have picked it up in a flash. That person was following a trend and being stupid. He should have sold it for around 500, bought an ion and put that extra money to good use.

                            Well, that's my 2 cents.

                            Comment

                            • JimmyBeam
                              Registered User
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 1105

                              #29
                              just got my trigger installed last night

                              Comment

                              • fire1811
                                Firefighter
                                • Nov 2002
                                • 4930

                                #30
                                nice
                                how does the red look? I really didnt like the blue
                                shot a black and liked it
                                havent seen a red yet
                                "The Few Who Do Are The Envy Of The Many Who Only Stand And Watch"

                                Alway Remember *343*

                                Si vis pacem, para bellum

                                Comment

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