the Automag a spool valve?

[JimmyBeam]

hmm.....sean@smartpartswest, a sales rep for smart parts is saying the Automag valve is a spoolvalve.

The automag is a spool valve as well as the ion. The on/off is different and it is spring return where as the ion is electonically controlled.

and

Automag is a spool valve. Just ask Tom kaye...

I hate this argument. A spool valve has to be inline. Hence a BKO would never be one.

i dont know enough about this subject to know if he is right or wrong, but with all the talk of spool valves lately, i was jsut curious since i thought the mag was a blow forward/spring return


heres a link to the thread

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=12245866#post12245866

[Chronobreak]

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=12245866#post12245866

bext time link TO THE POST so we can find it easier

not sure if its true or not..im going to say no..or very diff from the spool valve tech sp is using.

[JimmyBeam]

sorry bout that.

yea im in the same boat, i dont know. i figured someone here would

[MicroMiniMe]

Any merit to that? Along the lines of broad sweeping gereralities?

A tactic by SP to sidestep the DYE spool valve injunction/lawsuit to give AGD 'prior art' over DYEs design to get off the hook?

Interesting comparison to say the least.

[Lohman446]

Sean is a smart guy, but he is not an engineer, he's a sales rep and toting company line - well I guess he is.

AGD has patented the blow forward marker, though they did not call it a spool valve. I don't think SP is helping themselves any by saying that they have not violated one patent because they have stepped on other intellectual property (unless there is an agreement somewhere between AGD and SP - may very well be).

I think an argument could be made that all semi auto markers, where the bolt rests behind the firing chamber before firing, are in violation of AGDs original patent. Apparently TK has decided not to, or does not beleive this.

[Chronobreak]

he said you "CAN EVEN ASK TOM KAYE HIMSELF"

ok here it goes...


TOM TOM TOM(must say his name 3 times for him to appear like beetlejuice)

so is the mag a primative spool valve? and ifso does that mean you technicaly own the spool valve patent?

[RRfireblade]

In basic terms, a spool valve consists of a 'spool' and the valve body. By moving the spool through the valve body and due to the passages or design of the spool, it changes the direction of flow through the valve.

This is how the Matrix bolt system functions or the 3 way on an Autococker for example.How the spool is moved through the valve can vary quite a bit. In the Matrix, which is basically a Piloted valve system, air pressure which is controlled by an electronic soleniod...also a piloted spool valve BTW..is used to create a differential that forces the bolt to move in the valve body. When doing so, the 'spool' or bolt allows air to pass throught the valve body in the manner required to fire a paint ball.It is then 'spooled' back to the original position to start the cycle over again.

An Autococker 3 way functions the same except it is 'spooled' manually and is directly acted on by the timing rod/trigger.

The Automag in simplest terms, is nothing more than a cork in a Coke bottle. Pressure in the dump chamber simply pushes out the cork till the bottle opening is clear and can release gas.When the flow of gas is stopped, and it must be stopped by an outside source/valve, the 'cork' is allowed to return.There really is no valving or switching at all.Now the L10 does add some spool like valving but it's really not the primary part of the design as much as it's mearly a side note to the original intent.

The ION does use some parts of both systems as it uses contained pressure to initiate the 'spools' primary forward movement but there is no mistake the the bolt system in the ION IS a spool valve consisting of all the air/fluid switching characterists of what most would consider to be a spool valved system.One may call it a blow forward but that is only a description of one single part of it's function, not at all ,IMO an accurate description of the complete function of the markers bolt system as it completes a full cycle.

[Army]

'Mags are a pressure relief valve.

[Evil Bob]

The "spool" description refers to the bolt behaving like a "spool" when you wind thread onto it. Anyone who has done any work with sewing machines knows that as you wind thread onto a spool or bobbin, the thread winds back and forth in a nice pattern. If the thread is sufficiently heavy, the actual spool will move around as the thread winds onto it, bouncing up and down on the stand.

Think of the air that is forced around the spool to force it to move as the thread, as the volume of air or "thread" increases, the spool moves. As the thread reaches the edge of the spool, it winds on top of itself and starts winding in the opposite direction, which gives you the back and forth movment.

-Evil Bob

[AGD]

Ok you said it three times.....

NO the mag valve is NOT a spool valve. There are some things that are similar but I am very suprised someone from SP said it was. He must have figured that all single tube guns are spool valves.

AGD

[Creative Mayhem]

Ok you said it three times.....

NO the mag valve is NOT a spool valve. There are some things that are similar but I am very suprised someone from SP said it was. He must have figured that all single tube guns are spool valves.

AGD

Ask and ye shall recieve. What I think the SP guy was trying to say was that he likes the "tool valves" SP =

[Twiek]

As usual, SP has their heads up their collective "rear ends".

Not all single tube guns are spool valves and not all spool valves are necessarily single tube guns. The bolt does not have to be part of the spool for it to qualify as one (the Mayhem and Nova series are good examples of such). You could theoreticly make a spool valve conversion for any double stack 'marker (including the BKO). And there must be 1000 different nelson based single tube pump guns that aren't spool valved, and the ATS is a non-spooled single tube semi.

[Evil Bob]

Keep in mind this is the same marketing group who came up with "Seal Forward Technology" that makes their open bolt perform "like a closed bolt".

-Evil Bob

[RRfireblade]

Ok you said it three times.....

NO the mag valve is NOT a spool valve. There are some things that are similar but I am very suprised someone from SP said it was. He must have figured that all single tube guns are spool valves.

AGD

Actually SP is trying to argue that the ION is a blow forward like a Mag, not the other way around.

Obviously that's the only arguement that if could be shown, would get Dye off thier case.

That's why.

[FSU_Paintball]

I think it's really funny how everyone in this thread was talking like "Well, this guy from SP said it... it sounds weird... is it true?"

And as soon as Tom chimes in, everybody says, "YEAH! Those SP guys are STUPID! How could they say/think something like that?"

I guess it could be argued that a mag is a very basic spool valve, but that's a vast, vast generalization to the point where I'd say the designs are two completely different beasts. I think a prior poster was correct in saying that this is a good way for SP to sidestep legal action pointed at them by claiming prior art by AGD.

It's pretty smart if you think about it.