Is it me or SP?

[SlartyBartFast]

Yeh... because there is absolutely zero advantage to a lower operating pressure.. shooting lower into the tank for instance .

Well, DUH.

Sure if you can shoot lower into the tank with the same performance, then great. But lower operating pressure or shooting "lower into the tank" is not a performance indicator.

Sustainable FPS, BPS, and useable shots are performance indicators.

If you gave ME a marker that required an even higher input pressure than a mag but could shoot a whole case on one fill, I'd buy it. But the majority of unthinking paintballers would complain about the "unused air".

[Lohman446]

If you gave ME a marker that required an even higher input pressure than a mag but could shoot a whole case on one fill, I'd buy it. But the majority of unthinking paintballers would complain about the "unused air".

At that point many people would, as you pointed out. I would take the increase in efficiency, assuming we were talking being able to shoot down to 2000PSI. But its a hypothetical that I don't think is true. Currently we don't seem to have an uber efficient HP gun. If efficiency is roughly the same, then I would want the one that could shoot lower into the tank - all other things being equal (I realize there not)

Edit. PS, I'm going back to using the nice smileys I think we can understand each other better that way

[shadowspar]

And they should fix it why? You keep buying the product don't you?

Jealous?

If you keep having problems with a company's stuff, if their quality control sucks and their customer service is worse, you should be voting with your feet. Or voting with your wallet, as it were. If a business screws you over, continuing to hand them your money doesn' t give them any incentive to improve.

[teufelhunden]

Should be, sure. But show me a viable alternative that offers the same performance at the same price. People are willing to deal with the nuances that come with SP's products because they pay $280 for an Ion that does all the same stuff as, say, a Cyborg or FS.

[Lohman446]

If you keep having problems with a company's stuff, if their quality control sucks and their customer service is worse, you should be voting with your feet. Or voting with your wallet, as it were. If a business screws you over, continuing to hand them your money doesn' t give them any incentive to improve.

because, after taking into consideration the pros and cons of SPs products (there QC and tech support being a con) there products still meet my wants for gear better than anyone elses. Do I wish it were elsewise... sure, but noone seems to meet my wants as well as they have or do at this point. This post should be giving a lot of other companies (well not this post but this theory) ideas on what to aim for. Give me what SP does (and Im talking the marketing, the glamour, the availability, the presence, in addition to the qualities of the gear itself) with better quality, better tech support, and competetive pricing and I will seriously consider those products.

[smilestyler]

because, after taking into consideration the pros and cons of SPs products (there QC and tech support being a con) there products still meet my wants for gear better than anyone elses. Do I wish it were elsewise... sure, but noone seems to meet my wants as well as they have or do at this point. This post should be giving a lot of other companies (well not this post but this theory) ideas on what to aim for. Give me what SP does (and Im talking the marketing, the glamour, the availability, the presence, in addition to the qualities of the gear itself) with better quality, better tech support, and competetive pricing and I will seriously consider those products.

If you've chosen SP knowing of the consequences, your gonna have to live with them. In all paintball companies that come to mind, none of them are able to pair Marketing/Hype/low pricing with Quality/Tech support/ethics. It seems as if you're going to have to choose.

[SlartyBartFast]

At that point many people would, as you pointed out. I would take the increase in efficiency, assuming we were talking being able to shoot down to 2000PSI. But its a hypothetical that I don't think is true. Currently we don't seem to have an uber efficient HP gun. If efficiency is roughly the same, then I would want the one that could shoot lower into the tank - all other things being equal (I realize there not)

At least we're talking the same idea.

As for HIGHER pressure giving efficiency, it was discussed here:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=165635&highlight=hypermag

I think AGD gave up trying to educate the paintball playing public. But, I'd say that if someone could show that a very HP gun could work, they'd get the required converts...

Sorry to hijack the thread.

[frop]

F#@$ smat parts BUY AGD

:sigh:

I guess they don't teach reading in elementary school anymore.

[Lohman446]

smat parts BUY AGD (edited for content, and to be within board rules

This is the point.

Ok, AGD I want to use one of your markers at the tournament on the first of next month.

It must be electro, it must have dual ball detents, it must have an eye system, it must have a decent trigger. It must have a good profile, be of reasonable weight, and reasonable efficiency. It has to use standard 9V batteries Ship it to... oh wait, there's a problem there....

[hitech]

It must be electro, it must have dual ball detents, it must have an eye system...

Why MUST you have those things? Isn't what you want a marker that you can shoot really fast and doesn't double feed? Why the specifics?

[SAW]

Why MUST you have those things? Isn't what you want a marker that you can shoot really fast and doesn't double feed? Why the specifics?

I ordered a Shocker because I had been having to constantly tune my LX - trying to be on the edge of performance with it... I wanted dual ball detents because of the Halo on top.

.

[mag88888]

i have TERRIBLe luck with ordering anything, just anything. itll be defected, need to be customized, leaks, completely broken, much more. your almost lucky IMO. i hate ordering!

[slade]

This is the point.

Ok, AGD I want to use one of your markers at the tournament on the first of next month.

It must be electro, it must have dual ball detents, it must have an eye system, it must have a decent trigger. It must have a good profile, be of reasonable weight, and reasonable efficiency. It has to use standard 9V batteries Ship it to... oh wait, there's a problem there....

im pretty sure a devilmag fits all of those (i know you already ordered one, im just saying) except for the dual ball detents. but why do you need dual detents? ive never had a single double feed with my halo except for when my detent came loose.

F#@$ smat parts BUY AGD

*sigh* i may hate smart parts but i also hate it when people act like that. seriously, try backing up what say instead of cursing, misspelling simple words, using oversized text and abusing smileys.

and although i hate SP and they have many quality control issues, AGD still isnt perfect. take last sunday, for instance. my LV10 spring snapped in half.

[Lohman446]

im pretty sure a devilmag fits all of those (i know you already ordered one, im just saying) except for the dual ball detents. but why do you need dual detents? ive never had a single double feed with my halo except for when my detent came loose.

My DevilMag has (will have) dual detents... Chris milled it out for me and added the second detent. The reason is one or pushing.. and a wild guess on my part. We know that balls do not rotate on one axis, but it seems to me that my mags with detents on the right all faded right on long shots - regardless of wind. I wonder if the ball rotates on that axis and causes that. I have no idea, but a second detent was relatively cheap. The problem with the DevilMag, is if I ordered on today what are the chances of having one by the first of the month. I expect I will be happy with it... but its a custom job... why didn't AGD make one that I could order stock that way, or close?

[Lohman446]

Why MUST you have those things? Isn't what you want a marker that you can shoot really fast and doesn't double feed? Why the specifics?

Your right in a way... but these are the specifics that I beleive will work without being convinced. As such, until I am shown otherwise, I will demand the specifics I know work.