Aluminum Classic valve???

[Nobody077]

How many users of high-end markers still use Co2? If you want to use Co2 get yourself a spyder, or a old Tippy Pro-light(it runs best on liquid) or a classic SS valved Mag. I personaly dont know anyone that can outshoot a classic valve and if you say you can prove it, I have done 15bps on Co2 with a classic valve and Autoresponce frame with only a 20fps drop and most people have never seen a Autoresponce fram yet alon own one so there not going to see over 10bps no matter how fast they think they are.

No matter what type of valve system you use if your useing Co2 and shooting fast you will freeze the valve, I have played with a battery powered baby bottel warmer taped to a cocker so I could shoot Co2 without freezeing it up(in mid 70 deg Ca weather) If you want Co2 you still have your choices, bottom line is a aluminum classic wont make the money that the X-valve does so why bother its just not the way to do buisness, and why design a new valve for a old technology its like wanting to building a steam powered Indy car

[shartley]

How many users of high-end markers still use Co2? If you want to use Co2 get yourself a spyder, or a old Tippy Pro-light(it runs best on liquid) or a classic SS valved Mag. I personaly dont know anyone that can outshoot a classic valve and if you say you can prove it, I have done 15bps on Co2 with a classic valve and Autoresponce frame with only a 20fps drop and most people have never seen a Autoresponce fram yet alon own one so there not going to see over 10bps no matter how fast they think they are.

No matter what type of valve system you use if your useing Co2 and shooting fast you will freeze the valve, I have played with a battery powered baby bottel warmer taped to a cocker so I could shoot Co2 without freezeing it up(in mid 70 deg Ca weather) If you want Co2 you still have your choices, bottom line is a aluminum classic wont make the money that the X-valve does so why bother its just not the way to do buisness, and why design a new valve for a old technology its like wanting to building a steam powered Indy car

[peewee]

I believe that remaking the classic valve out of aluminum could act as a cost saving for an entry level marker. With the continual increase in the price of steel. This combined with some type of new extruded or composite body . We all know the level X valve is better than the classic for recharge etc. But Personally I cant outshoot a classic valve & I dont believe many rec ballers can. With doing this it opens up a whole flavor of the month aspect that kingman has banked on for years. A bling bling annodized mag for $200 or less to increase sales in the entry level sector. People keep whining about when agd is going to come out with some new gun. At my work we are asked to have an out line for cost savings measurments when we come up with a new design, be it a change in material type or thickness. The big wigs always want to look at ways to cut cost & increase the bank roll.

[Banshee23]

I believe that remaking the classic valve out of aluminum could act as a cost saving for an entry level marker.

This would be true if AGD was actively making new SS classic valves. But, as it was mention earlier in this thread, it is believed that AGD isn't making anymore new classic valves. These are just leftover existing stock. So I would say the chances of seeing an aluminum classic are slim at best.

[Lohman446]

I believe that remaking the classic valve out of aluminum could act as a cost saving for an entry level marker.

However, making an aluminum classic valve is no cheaper (or minimally so) than making an X-valve. Well it would be nice to have a not $300 valve to offer and as such "justify" a cheaper marker, the cost savings to AGD would not make up for the lower price, there would just be less markup with a "cheaper" valve being the reason. That being said I'm not necesarrily against it but I beleive the answer, assuming the current trend of mechanical markers with no further advancements and nothing new, is ultimately going to be another price drop on them to make them competetive. Face it, strengths and weaknesses taken into consideration it becomes hard to sell a $450 mechanical marker with things like the Ion around $280

[NoForts4Me]

Face it, strengths and weaknesses taken into consideration it becomes hard to sell a $450 mechanical marker with things like the Ion around $280

Yeah, I think Glenn Palmer is having a tough time too because of the IONs. And so is CCI. Those Phantoms are so slow and don't have eyes .

Seriously, different strokes. It's all a preference thing. However, I do agree with Shartley...I have kept my Classic because I do not have access to N2 or compressed air, so I can't shoot a X-Valve. Many people don't live in a big city with access to air, so I think that may have hurt Mag sales.

[Nobody077]

Not realy shure about your idea of a "High End" Marker but would a E-Mag or X-mag not be on the list? Or in order to be a High end marker does it require a skimpy dressed blond holding the gun in a photo shoot? If so then your correct AGD woulden be in the running. I look at high end as high performance, reliabilty and trust, But then that kinda only leaves AGD so go figure. And as for the Magazine reading, online, misinformed bunch.... LOL how many years experance do you have in the real world of paintball? I for one have been playing for over 10 years, I have seen so many new fads come and go and have heard it all when it comes to hype, I have only purchased 2 paintball magazines in this time, I have played with Co2 and froze valves when running a 5ft remote and a X-chamber on more than 1 gun. What is your real life experance with paintball, No not counting haveing your first gun given to you from AGD for building a website, but true on the field experance, helping people fix there markers on the field in the dirt, tuneing guns in the parking lot and truely seeing the sport go through its good and bad days?

You cant alwase have everything you want, there is a reason the valves are designed for HPA and not Co2, shure you could run a X-valve on Co2 if you meet your requirements but can get the Co2 to recharge the valve quick enough? How do you expect to keep the tank pressure up to the required point, heat the tank? because you should know the tank gets chilled when the Co2 changes from liquid to a gas thus causeing the tank pressure to drop

[slade]

Or in order to be a High end marker does it require a skimpy dressed blond holding the gun in a photo shoot?

nope, course not. look at keely watson, shes not blonde . sorry just had to say it.

and yes e/xmags are high end, but they arent in production anymore. and yes unfortunately as shartley said AGD is not producing "high end" markers anymore (high end as in fast tourney electros). AGD is making scenario/woodsball markers now, and the only high end mags in production now are the devilmags. the mq and pneumag will also be "high end" tourney markers when they come out.

[Lohman446]

Yeah, I think Glenn Palmer is having a tough time too because of the IONs. And so is CCI. Those Phantoms are so slow and don't have eyes .

Seriously, different strokes. It's all a preference thing. However, I do agree with Shartley...I have kept my Classic because I do not have access to N2 or compressed air, so I can't shoot a X-Valve. Many people don't live in a big city with access to air, so I think that may have hurt Mag sales.

But... are we discussing AGD continueing as a mainstream company (which has seemed rather doomed to failure - outside opinion, uneducated) or as a niche company (such as Palmers, etc.) As a niche company I think AGD could survive very well... maybe thats what they are doing anyways.

But your right too.. I was working off an assumption not stated - that being AGD continuing as a mainstream company.

[peewee]

Everyone is assuming that AGD isnt making any more SS valves. I am also not sure that the production cost between a SS valve & aluminum would be +/- $240. The X is an entirely different monster. I would also expect longer tool life etc with working with aluminum.

[NoForts4Me]

But... are we discussing AGD continueing as a mainstream company (which has seemed rather doomed to failure - outside opinion, uneducated) or as a niche company (such as Palmers, etc.) As a niche company I think AGD could survive very well... maybe thats what they are doing anyways.

But your right too.. I was working off an assumption not stated - that being AGD continuing as a mainstream company.

Well, I guess I am assuming that AGD is already a niche company, or is moving that way. They could have stayed "mainstream" in many people's eyes if they had licensed either an electronic or pneumatic trigger. But they didn't, and are apparently focusing on the mech side (assuming they are focusing on something). This isn't necessarily a bad thing...many niche companies (paintball or other) do quite well, if they can define and market to their niche.

[shartley]

nope, course not. look at keely watson, shes not blonde . sorry just had to say it.

and yes e/xmags are high end, but they arent in production anymore. and yes unfortunately as shartley said AGD is not producing "high end" markers anymore (high end as in fast tourney electros). AGD is making scenario/woodsball markers now, and the only high end mags in production now are the devilmags. the mq and pneumag will also be "high end" tourney markers when they come out.

Exactly...

Everyone is assuming that AGD isnt making any more SS valves. I am also not sure that the production cost between a SS valve & aluminum would be +/- $240. The X is an entirely different monster. I would also expect longer tool life etc with working with aluminum.

[bleachit]

I have done 15bps on Co2 with a classic valve and Autoresponce frame with only a 20fps drop and most people have never seen a Autoresponce fram yet alon own one so there not going to see over 10bps no matter how fast they think they are.

I just got an autoresponse frame, actually, on my classic mag. I'm curious as to how long you could fire continuously without freezing the valve.

[Nobody077]

I just got an autoresponse frame, actually, on my classic mag. I'm curious as to how long you could fire continuously without freezing the valve.

I have done about 5 sec strings at that rate on a realy warm day, but as you know that frame has a realy strong trigger pull so my finger got realy tired. The valve hadent frozen but was very very cold to the touch, with condensation forming on the out side of the valve and tank, this was with the bottle vertical under the frame so there was no chance of liquid entering the gun