Trade gone bad, looking for advice and possibly 3rd party.

[Ghetto]

I bought a Freestyle in march, sent it out to ICD for the HE upgrade and got the gun back April 15th. On May 2nd I traded my Freestyle for a timmy. I shipped my FS out Monday and it was received Wednesday at 4:19pm. Thursday I AIM'd the guy I was trading with. He said he was going to ship the timmy that day, but first he wanted to shoot the FS. He told me that he had tried to remove the bolt but it was "stuck" and that was a big problem. He hoped after he shot it it would be easier to remove. He was gone for awhile, came back to tell me that the HPR was leaking, the noid leaked and the bolt wouldn't recock. He said he had adjusted the pressure to what the manual suggests and it wasn't functioning correctly. I talked with him for hours trying to see what was going on with the gun I even called ICD. At the end of our conversation he seemed to be fine and I apologized for the problems, he told me it was no big deal the leak was getting better and not to worry. Today I get a PM from him stating that's its urgent that he speak with me. I got on AIM and he told me the FS was still leaking and he was shipping it back he didn't want to deal with it. He said that his local pro shop looked at it and said they didn't know what was wrong but it was probably the noid. When I shipped the gun it was shooting fine. What happened from the time he received it until now is beyond me. He says he did nothing to the gun that it leaked as soon as he aired it up. I just find it strange that he was trying to take the marker apart(or atleast remove the bolt) before he ever aired the gun up. I have yet to receive the timmy but he demanded that I contact him the day I do so we can ship the markers out at the same time. This is where I have issues I sent the FS to him in working order and for whatever reason its not working as of now. I told him I have no problem with shipping the timmy back to him after I get the FS and insure that there's nothing else(scratches, tool marks whatever) wrong with the gun. But he said he NEVER ships first and he refused to start now. I can understand his point of view, because in this situation I have the same as he does. I don't want to ship the timmy and never get the FS back or get the Fs back and it be in worse condition than when I sent it to him.

Is there a 3rd party company that anyone can recommend that would at least visually inspect the markers before they send them to their respective owners? I want the trade back to be as safe as it possibly can be. So any help would be greatly appreciated


Heres our AIM convo if anyone cares to read. Its lengthy:
Ghettox121x: hey whats up
AfroMan0026: hey
AfroMan0026: got the gun, and I am leaving to ship the timmy in about 20 minutes
Ghettox121x: cool. shoot the FS yet?
AfroMan0026: No, but i'm going to before I ship the timmy
AfroMan0026: just incase
Ghettox121x: ok cool, did you find the Cd and stuff i the bottom of the box?
AfroMan0026: Well, I'm gonna go shoot the FS, and ship out the timmy, I will IM you with a label number when I get back
AfroMan0026: and Yes I found that stuff
Ghettox121x: ok cool
Ghettox121x: I'll lave AIM up. if I dont respond I'll bbl
AfroMan0026 is away at 4:06:53 PM.

Auto response from AfroMan0026: Doin' Stuff..

AfroMan0026: oh I forgot to mention something
AfroMan0026 returned at 4:07:14 PM.
AfroMan0026: I watched the DVD and they showed how to remove the bolt assembly/back block.

I tried this, and yours will not come out no matter what I do
Ghettox121x: hm
Ghettox121x: dunno why that would be, it just came back from ICD like a week ago
Ghettox121x: it hast been taken apart since then
AfroMan0026: I took that screw out, and tried pulling out the back block, but did nothing
AfroMan0026: And f I can't get that out it's obviously going to be a big problem
AfroMan0026: so idk
AfroMan0026: i'll see
AfroMan0026: maybe after I shoot it it'll ease up
Ghettox121x: lets hope so
AfroMan0026: yea
AfroMan0026 is away at 4:09:47 PM.
Ghettox121x: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...olt+%2Bremoval

Auto response from AfroMan0026: Doin' Stuff..


AfroMan0026 returned at 5:32:06 PM.
AfroMan0026: k, finally aired up the gun...

You said you had shot it, but I dont axactly know how.
AfroMan0026: There was a small leak from the solenoid which I eventually fixed
AfroMan0026: and the reg has a leak and bad recharge rate
Ghettox121x: which reg?
AfroMan0026: It fires decent, but I have to replace the reg
AfroMan0026: HPR...It has horrid recharge, and the bolt doesnt really recock, and YES I had them set correctly
Ghettox121x: there were no leaks when i sent it you. I cycled the gun just make sure everything was on the up and up
AfroMan0026: I did try it with a different reg and it performend better, but the reg I used was an old Dragun reg which is terrible to begin with
Ghettox121x: what did you have the HPR set at?
AfroMan0026: I dont see how you cycled it man, because I wasnt able to, even after sweetspotting the regs
AfroMan0026: 270
Ghettox121x: did you get 270 from the manual? its a different input with the HE
AfroMan0026: It says 220-280, and I figured since the gun was newer a higher pressure woule be necessary, which it was
AfroMan0026: Yea I got that from the manual
AfroMan0026: I shipped the timmy btw
AfroMan0026: not sure what my mom used b/c I wasnt able to go with her, but it came out to a total of like 17.00 so it must have been something quick
Ghettox121x: usps or something else?
AfroMan0026: USPS
Ghettox121x: Just a sec looking for some info on the HE bolt input pressure
AfroMan0026: aight, and I know for a fact that it was the reg, because upon trying a different one, it orked correctly
Ghettox121x: ok
Ghettox121x: what reg is on the timmy?
Ghettox121x: I can ship it back to you if you like
AfroMan0026: The BL reg is on the timmy
AfroMan0026: dont worry about shipping it back, I have extra regs, but there not good
AfroMan0026: useable though
Ghettox121x: ok, I dont mind shipping it back though.
AfroMan0026: aright, i'll let you know
Ghettox121x: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=810056
Ghettox121x: in that post it says set the reg to 350 for the HE bolt
AfroMan0026: oh, wow
AfroMan0026: but then why did my other reg work fine when it was set the same as the FS reg?
Ghettox121x: no clue man. I heard the stock ICD reg was flaky..
Ghettox121x: did the new reg fix the bolt stick?
AfroMan0026: noo, still had trouble recocking
AfroMan0026: I guess thats called bolt stick on a FS?
AfroMan0026: idk
Ghettox121x: er thats what i call it...
Ghettox121x: not sure what other term is used
Ghettox121x: I was told the LPR adjusts the recocking
AfroMan0026: Yea it does.

I read in the manual that after u adjust to far in the gun will leak from the noid...I would adjust it to the point where it would leak from the noid then back it out just a teeny bit, and it still had trouble recocking
AfroMan0026: I'm sure i'll figure something out
Ghettox121x:
ICD Manual v1.2 Error

Do not Follow tuning Directions on Page 10
It states to raise the LPR Until Leaking then Back it out 1/8 Turn to Have it set at appx 115 ( because it bleeds at 125) this is an error it does not Bleed at that Low a pressure

Use the directions on Page 22 and 23

The ones with the Pictures Above them...

Raise it until it Snaps Back then an additional half turn...
Ghettox121x: thats from PBn aswell
AfroMan0026: But why did it start leaking?
AfroMan0026: Im afraid to raise it further after it leaks cuz i dont wanna blow the noid
Ghettox121x: I cant say, its hard to tech a gun over AIM....but you sound like your pretty familiar with regs and such. just trying to apss on what info I have..
AfroMan0026: Yea, i'm fine with the regs, it's just that I dont know the tolerances of the noid, noid hoses, and bolt assembly
AfroMan0026: And I really don't wanna mess anything up
Ghettox121x: yeah i can understand that.
Ghettox121x: Would the bolt clear the feedtube?
AfroMan0026: no, I wanted to shoot paint but couldn't
AfroMan0026: Any suggstions on what to try?
AfroMan0026: I really want to get the FS reg working, because the other one I have is rather ****ty
AfroMan0026: But the recocking issue is what i'm really worried about, because I hav no clue how to fix it
Ghettox121x: I had the HPR set at 350, crossfire HP preset tank. LPR adjusted ( NO clue what PSI) clear the feedneck. I shot paint the day I sent it to you. Maybe the lower pressure is starving the LPR and not allowing the bolt to recock?
AfroMan0026: I'll go try that now
Ghettox121x: I can call ICD if you'd like
AfroMan0026: Well, i'll try that HPR thing and tell you what happens first
AfroMan0026: brb
AfroMan0026 is away at 5:56:30 PM.
AfroMan0026 returned at 6:04:16 PM.
AfroMan0026: K, tried it.

Turned reg up to 350, everytime I would shoot the gun would have a HUGE leak coming from the barrel area (I think) and the leak wouldnt stop until I pulled the trigger again
Ghettox121x: turn the LPR up
Ghettox121x: clockwise
AfroMan0026: I did\
Ghettox121x: I just talked to Greg at ICD. he said until the gun is broken in it needs 350-400 psi
AfroMan0026: Leak didnt stop, when I turned it down the leak would be less (but still there)
Ghettox121x: was the bolt stuck open?
AfroMan0026: hmm..400? That seems really hight, but if a tech said it then I guess I might as well give it a shot
AfroMan0026: Yea, bolt wouldnt recock it self..

One trigger pull would fire the marker, the next would recock it half way
Ghettox121x: yeah thats the LPR...I am almost sure. disconnect the air and turn the LPR up a little. try again
AfroMan0026: k, i'm reading that thread right now, after that I will try a few more things
Ghettox121x: ok
AfroMan0026: When you are taking off the back block, do you have to twist it at all? or just pull it?
Ghettox121x: just pull. I havent had the block off since the HE was installed. so its probably really tight
AfroMan0026: Yea, I cant get it off at all
Ghettox121x: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...olt+%2Bremoval
Ghettox121x: theres a thread with a few tips on removal. they say its tough the first few times.
AfroMan0026: Yea, hopefully thats the problem.

I'm gonna go mess with the gun a few more times to see what I can do
Ghettox121x: ok
AfroMan0026 is away at 6:14:20 PM.
AfroMan0026 returned at 6:27:09 PM.
AfroMan0026: got it working a little bit.

I got it to recock, but it still has a constant leak
Ghettox121x: from the barrel?
AfroMan0026: Seemed to be coming from the noid.

I lowered the LPr and it did nothing, I higherd it and it did nothing
Ghettox121x: so the leak is from the right side of the gun?
AfroMan0026: Idk what side, just that it's coming from the noid or bolt barrel, not sure exactly which
AfroMan0026: bolt area*
Ghettox121x: the noid is on the right side.(the clammy side) near the back of the gun
AfroMan0026: Yea, i'm not sure if it was coming from the noid or bolt
AfroMan0026: I wasnt able to tell
Ghettox121x: so the leak from the noid you were refering to earlier, how did you fix it?
Ghettox121x: did you take the gun apart?
AfroMan0026: No..I messed with the LPR to fix that one
AfroMan0026: But this one keeps leaking even when I mess with the pressure
Ghettox121x: so its a totally new leak?
AfroMan0026: No...same one as before, just smaller
AfroMan0026: remember when I said there was a huge leak that didnt stop until I pulled the trigger again?
Ghettox121x: yeah
AfroMan0026: Well this is the same leak, but its continuos and not as big
Ghettox121x: the LPR had no effect?
AfroMan0026: No
Ghettox121x: what tank are you using?
AfroMan0026: HP Throttle
AfroMan0026: Dye Throttle HP*
Ghettox121x: ok
Ghettox121x: non adjustable correct?
AfroMan0026: correct
Ghettox121x: do you think the leak is down the barrel or elsewhere?
AfroMan0026: No, not from the barrel
AfroMan0026: it's definately from the noid or bolt, most likely the noid b/c thats where it was earlier
AfroMan0026: I'm out of air though, otherwise I would go shceck
AfroMan0026: check*
Ghettox121x: is it leaking out of the grip frame?
AfroMan0026: I dont think it was..
AfroMan0026: Not too sure though
Ghettox121x: the noid and the 4 way are right above the grip frame.
AfroMan0026: Yea I know
AfroMan0026: I think it was coming from the noid, because the bolt was previously fin
AfroMan0026: e
Ghettox121x: if it wasnt coming out of the grip I doubt its the noid.
Ghettox121x: but without having the gun in my hand its hard to tell
AfroMan0026: It was a rather small leak..so I dont think it would have been really noticeable if it was coming out the grip frame
Ghettox121x: but you think its only one leak right?
AfroMan0026: Yea, its only 1
Ghettox121x: before you ran out of air did you totally back the LPR off?
AfroMan0026: no, why?
Ghettox121x: supposedly the 4 way has a vent system so the noid wont over pressurize
AfroMan0026: Yea, thats iff you screw the LPR in too far
Ghettox121x: yeah...
AfroMan0026: I adjusted it out and the leak persisted, but I never fully backed it out
AfroMan0026: I'll be getting some more air on Saturday, and I should be able to figure something out then
Ghettox121x: the battery may need replacing aswell
AfroMan0026: Yea, same with the Timmy
AfroMan0026: I shot the Timmy today btw.

It shot good but seemed a bit slow, so you will want to set the dwell and all that based on the manual
Ghettox121x: I downloaded a manual from ICd just now. it says slight noid leakage could be related to low battery power.
Ghettox121x: ok
AfroMan0026: Oh really? Hopefully thats all it is
Ghettox121x: yeah...I cant copy and paste from this pdf for some reason
AfroMan0026: I have the DVD manual in my disk drive right now, so i'll look at that
Ghettox121x: ok cool
AfroMan0026: It says under battery related problems: "Slight leak from the solenoid in the back of the grip"
Ghettox121x: yeah
Ghettox121x: thats the same thing i read
Ghettox121x: I am sorry you've had issues with the gun. It honestly shot great before i boxed it up
AfroMan0026: I believe you
AfroMan0026: i'll be back in a little bit.

Im gonna go put on my football gloves which have good grip, and see if that helps to get off the back block
Ghettox121x: ok. just keep me updated.
AfroMan0026: Hah, My first time I took the back block off of my FS, I had my freind holding on to the regulator, and me with my gloves on pulling the back block. When it came loose, I tore all of the o-rings and scratched the big black thing on the edge of the clammy. Oh well though, got it ofF!!
Use some gloves and some muscle, you'll get it off of there lil buddy.
Zach


__________________

AfroMan0026: Hopefully that doesnt happen
AfroMan0026: I found it on PBN
Ghettox121x: yeah thats not cool
AfroMan0026: lol, i'll be careful not to mess anyhing up
AfroMan0026: bbl
Ghettox121x: ok
AfroMan0026 is away at 6:57:14 PM.
AfroMan0026: woohoo, I got it

Auto response from Ghettox121x: Out for a bite to eat BBL

AfroMan0026 returned at 7:01:09 PM.
AfroMan0026: k\
AfroMan0026 is away at 7:01:18 PM.
Ghettox121x: yo
Auto response from AfroMan0026: I am away from my computer right now.

AfroMan0026 returned at 7:01:32 PM.
AfroMan0026: hey
Ghettox121x: hey
AfroMan0026: I got the backblock off, no damage done..lol
Ghettox121x: lol awesome
Ghettox121x: tough to pull off?
AfroMan0026: With the glove it wasnt bad
AfroMan0026: but w/o the glove I just couldnt grip anything
AfroMan0026: well, i'll brb...im ognna look at the bolt to see if any o-rings are damaged which wouldhave caused that leak.
AfroMan0026 is away at 7:02:50 PM.
AfroMan0026: I think I figured out the recocking problem
AfroMan0026 returned at 7:04:48 PM.
AfroMan0026: There was lube on the delrin bolt tip, which probably caused it to swell
AfroMan0026: thats why I had to run such a high pressure to get it to re-cock
AfroMan0026: this also explains why it worked fine 2 days ago and now it didnt
Ghettox121x: ah, yeah that makes sense
AfroMan0026: hopefully that was it
AfroMan0026: i'lll find out saturday
Ghettox121x: yeah I hope so too man
AfroMan0026: It's not a huge deal or anything, dont worry about it
AfroMan0026: Its getting better, so obvioussly theres nothing too bad wrong with it
Ghettox121x: I understand how lame guns not working are.....when i got my shocker it had issues
Ghettox121x: just hate that it was MY gun thats giving you probs
AfroMan0026: Yea I understand
AfroMan0026: But it sounds like something easy to fix, if only I had some more air
AfroMan0026: we;;, i'm gonna go clean/lube the bolt
AfroMan0026: well*
AfroMan0026: later
Ghettox121x: ok man, later
AfroMan0026 is away at 7:07:45 PM.
AfroMan0026 returned at 7:15:48 PM.
AfroMan0026 is away at 7:48:59 PM.
AfroMan0026 returned at 7:59:49 PM.
AfroMan0026 is away at 9:40:39 PM.
AfroMan0026 returned at 9:40:47 PM.

[Paintchucker]

You shipped first last time. It is his turn to ship first, especially if he doesn't like the deal and wants to swap back. Sorry that happened to you, sometimes trades go bad. With the leaks and all, sounds like somehow it was maybe aired up with too much pressure or something?

So you have the His gun that he was supposed to ship after you sent him your gun? If so, and he wants to trade back, then he has no choice in the matter but to ship first. And if not, then you should just refuse to swap back under "his" conditions.

[kurama]

I wouldn't be surprised if those problems were the result of shipping.

Anyways, he should ship first since he wants to trade back and you shipped first last time. If you want a third party, Palmers Persuit Shop does them, and for cheaper there are several people on impulseownersgroup.com who do third parties.

[SpecialBlend2786]

yeah, as mentioned before Palmer does safe haven stuff. You can definitly trust them

[Blazestorm]

Can use me, I have 70+ feedback, and just sold 4-5 guns in the last few days, selling my main gun tomorrow.

I know how to tune and shoot both guns...

I might be buying a nice chrono to do more testing, and like a pod of reball so I don't waste paint.

Anyways, lemme know if you're interested, I'd be cheap, even clean the guns for free and point out any flaws in either of them.

[Ghetto]

You shipped first last time. It is his turn to ship first, especially if he doesn't like the deal and wants to swap back. Sorry that happened to you, sometimes trades go bad. With the leaks and all, sounds like somehow it was maybe aired up with too much pressure or something?

So you have the His gun that he was supposed to ship after you sent him your gun? If so, and he wants to trade back, then he has no choice in the matter but to ship first. And if not, then you should just refuse to swap back under "his" conditions.

I dont have the timmy yet....Its supposedly on its way.

Can use me, I have 70+ feedback, and just sold 4-5 guns in the last few days, selling my main gun tomorrow.

I know how to tune and shoot both guns...

I might be buying a nice chrono to do more testing, and like a pod of reball so I don't waste paint.

Anyways, lemme know if you're interested, I'd be cheap, even clean the guns for free and point out any flaws in either of them.

Thanks for the offer Blaze I'll let you know what I decide.

[punkncat]

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to decide after you get the Timmy, see if it works ok. You get it and there are all sorts of issues w/ it then you know the guy probably did the damage himself. I don't know how many trades I have done for "problem" markers just to find that 15 mins worth of tightening/adjusting/reassembly fixed the problems. Many people just cannot touch a marker w/o breaking it.

If you have the reciepts from ICD tuning and adjusting the marker, my suggestion would be to have him send the marker back to them. They just finished working on it. I am not saying they did something wrong, but sometimes a tech could overlook something simple and cause a problem. They may also keep some record of what they have worked on and done and could tell who caused this "new" problem.

I definately would NOT take back a broken marker when you just had it serviced by the manufacturer. Either they or he messed it up and my bet is on him. He gets a marker out, screws it up and then conveniantly wants to trade back? Sounds a bit fishy to me.....

[teufelhunden]

Yeah. Don't trade back without figuring out exactly what happened, and how. People are dumb-- and I'm sure you wouldn't be happy to get the gun back and see that the moron used all his might and 'football gloves' to turn the screw the wrong damn way. Or that he was like, "Hm, maybe this needs to get hit with a hammer, I mean, the DVD doesn't say it, but it seems like a good thing to do.."

I'm not sure how your feedback looks currently, but I'd rather have one bad feedback that you could post all that documentation about instead of a gun that some moron broke with an acetylene torch.

[bit-wizard]

Palmers Pursuit shop offers a 3rd party brokerage service ...

Palmer's Pursuit, the shop that custom manufactures such high end guns as the blazer and the typhoon, offers a 3rd party brokerage service. It works like this: Both parties ship the marker to Palmer's, they inspect and verify functionality, they then contact the sellers and provide a report on their findings. If both sellers agree to continue at this point, the markers are then shipped from Palmer's to the buyer.

They will handle any/all kinds of markers, and have the Palmer's reputation for quality. The price for the service is $35 per marker.

Check it out at....

http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/catalog/brokerage.htm

Best of luck!

[tyrion2323]

Ghetto,

Sounds to me like he got it, broke it, and is trying to blame it on you. I wouldn't trust him.

Jacob

[Almeister]

Don't send first. Let him send first this time. If he doesn't want to then tell him he can pay for third party.

[Ghetto]

Heres an update on the trade saga. I got the timmy on Monday, contacted the guy I sent the FS to, once again he demanded I ship the timmy back to him. I declined his offer. I told him I knew the gun worked when I shipped it to him and that i could verify the purchase date and contact ICD if need be. I also suggested that he contact ICD and speak with a FS tech to which he responded "I'm not going out of my way to get this gun fixed". So we "chatted" a bit more and when he finally realized that I wasnt gonna send the timmy back w/o the FS in hand he told me that his father wanted to talk to me. So I called and spoke with his dad. He was actually really cool, asked if I could get a work order from ICD proving the gun was there recently. I told him I would be glad to, I just needed the serial number. THey still havent sent me the serial number but he did leave positive feedback. He has the FS up for trade aswell. So needless to say its alot better ending than I thought it would be.

[Kevmaster]

ASSUMING you get the TImmy...I wouldnt ship it back until I get the FC back. If i get it back, i'd ship his timmy back..but no way in hell would I ship the Timmy ANYWHERE until I have my marker back in my hands.

Thats ASSUMING he actually sends the timmy and you actually receive it

[FallNAngel]

Glad things are looking up. If you still need someone for third party, I can also do it as well. I can work on both guns, take pics and even runs paint through them if you want. I have over 300 positive feedback on ebay and PBN combined... most as a seller. Hopefully it won't come to that though. Let us know what happens (if anything else).