which devil mag option

[Lohman446]

Make him refund money then close him down for bad business...............

In MI the BBB has almost zero power... not sure how that varies but they are a joke up here. That being said... I still think that Chris is doing everything he can to get us these as quickly as he can. There have been snags that many of us should have seen and others that none of us could have seen. I commend Chris for the effort he puts into this, even if I don't like the wait.


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[PaintDiddy]

In MI the BBB has almost zero power... not sure how that varies but they are a joke up here. That being said... I still think that Chris is doing everything he can to get us these as quickly as he can. There have been snags that many of us should have seen and others that none of us could have seen. I commend Chris for the effort he puts into this, even if I don't like the wait.

Well some people are in different situations then others, to some the wait is not a big deal. Some others actually have not been able to play over the last few months (no, im not one of them). I think there should be an "out" for those that just want to move on.
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[Lohman446]

Well some people are in different situations then others, to some the wait is not a big deal. Some others actually have not been able to play over the last few months (no, im not one of them). I think there should be an "out" for those that just want to move on.

It would be nice... I agree with that. However, what would be nice and what is possible may be two different things. I think Chris has already outlayed the capital in parts and ordering parts... and it may not be available to simply refund.

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[WARPED1]

The long wait is not the issue I think. It's the refusal to refund money.

[CoolHand]

I gotta say this, so bear with me here.

Is it taking a long time? Yes.

Did you all know this up front? Probably not.

Should you have expected it? Certainly.

This is a story that plays out over and over and over again in paintball, yet no one ever learns the lesson. Happened to me. I learned my lesson. You don't see my stuff going on preorder anymore, do you? Chirs has learned his lesson too, I guarantee it. He just has to fix the mess he's already in.

If he has got all his money tied up in these things, I can see why he won't refund your money. If he does, his business goes belly up, and he is left broke, with a bunch of half finished markers that he can't sell until he finds more thousands to put into them.

Chris should not have to go out of business because you guys changed your minds or lost your patience.

And yes, this is custom work. Anything that is done in quantites of less than 500 (hell in this case I'd bet its way less than 100), and has never been done before (which this hasn't), is custom.

[nt2004]

Chirs has learned his lesson too, I guarantee it. He just has to fix the mess he's already in.

I still dont see why the consumer has to pay for his mistakes. If he cant deliver and he tied up all our money, then it should come out of his pocket. I personally ordered just a bolt on unanno'd so how difficult do you think it would be for him to resell it? Its not much of a "custom" order if you ask me

[CoolHand]

I still dont see why the consumer has to pay for his mistakes. If he cant deliver and he tied up all our money, then it should come out of his pocket. I personally ordered just a bolt on unanno'd so how difficult do you think it would be for him to resell it? Its not much of a "custom" order if you ask me

No, see this is where you are wrong.

You all (mag users in general) were dieing for a good electro frame, but no one wanted to make one ('cause there wasn't enough money in it to justify all the trouble).

Chris stepped up as said he'd do it. You all knew up front that this project:

A) Had never been done before (at least not well).
B) Was being done on a shoestring by a new company. (Lets be honest here, anything from an AO dealer is done on a shoestring, be it Tuna, Rogue, Me, Luke, GADevil, or whoever)
C) Didn't have enough interest for anyone else to do it. (only through concentrated begging was Chris talked into doing it)
D) Would be high dollar, and long wait. (Don't say you thought a made from scratch add on part done in runs shorter than 100 and hand assembled one at a time (by the same guy) would be done quickly, and for not a lot of money)

If you think that it should be high quality, built fast, and sold cheap, you are mistaken. If you would call these parts production run stuff, you are mistaken. I cannot help that. Just because you think it, does not mean it is correct.

Ever wonder why no one wants to do these projects that "everyone" wants? Its because only about 0.5% of the folks who jump up and down will have the patience to see the project through. So that when someone does go to the trouble to give you exactly what you want, you all turn on them, and this sort of thing is the result.

It seems nearly all of you want the parts you want, when you want them, in the time frame you want them in, from a small business that will take care of you, but for the price that a giant like NPS could do them for. Those things are mutually exclusive, and you need to realize it. Untill you do, IMO, you all deserve not to have the parts you want made, because its just not worth the hassle.

Chris gave you all exactly what you asked for, and if he's lucky, he won't go out of busines for his trouble.

[rkjunior303]

Make him refund money then close him down for bad business...............

You are correct, Devilsden is not custom, he's a small business. Now Doc, is a custom shop, or Punishers Customs.

..or Destructive

[SCpoloRicker]

Whining on one thread wasn't enough for you two?

/thought it was worth repeating

[PaintDiddy]

It seems nearly all of you want the parts you want, when you want them, in the time frame you want them in, from a small business that will take care of you, but for the price that a giant like NPS could do them for. Those things are mutually exclusive, and you need to realize it. Untill you do, IMO, you all deserve not to have the parts you want made, because its just not worth the hassle.

I dont think anyone ever thought that what Chris was doing was easy. As far as unrealistic expectations go, waiting a few months with darn near no communication is not the same as expecting something on your door 3 days after you order it. I mean we got some kids here having there parents telling them they got scammed. I do say, I think whats going on here is just one bit of bad luck after another for Chris, and he is legitamately trying his best, but any consumer in their right mind would be justifiably outraged. As far as refunds are concerned, I dont think any of us know his money situation, but actual official updates can do alot to ease alot of peoples minds here.

[WARPED1]

Chris shouldn't have made a website and offered the gun to the general public if he didn't have the money to issue refunds when requested. He made it seem like it was a production run, like lots of guns in a short time. What he should have done is just quietly offer it to a few of his friends at first, build up a buzz. Then get a SBA 7a(thats a guarenteed small business loan) to invest in DevilsDen and start producing them more, even if only like 5 a year! Not like now where it's like 1 in 3 years..........

[CoolHand]

Chris shouldn't have made a website and offered the gun to the general public if he didn't have the money to issue refunds when requested. He made it seem like it was a production run, like lots of guns in a short time. What he should have done is just quietly offer it to a few of his friends at first, build up a buzz. Then get a SBA 7a(thats a guarenteed small business loan) to invest in DevilsDen and start producing them more, even if only like 5 a year! Not like now where it's like 1 in 3 years..........

Yes, that is a good business plan . . . . . . . if you qualify for such things. Not everyone everywhere will.

And, just to be clear, I doubt very seriously that things went down exactly as NTwhatever said they did. I know when I have a dispute with a customer (it doesn't happen often, but it does happen), the side they tell the forum is generally not even close to what actually happened. For some reason when people post about their bad deals, they think they need to make it sound worse than it really was. Mostly, I guess, this comes from them being mad, and wanting to make the biggest dent they can, but seriously folks, you gotta tell the whole story.

I don't know the details of their dealings (and really I don't want to know), but I can tell you that if I am doing a custom job for someone, there is no backing out after I have sourced the parts and started the work. That's just the way it goes. I am not willing to eat a half pink half yellow shocker with a DM5 board just because the person changed their mind. You try moving a monstrosity like that, when the only person in the world who thought it was cool already changed their mind. No thank you.

[WARPED1]

a half pink half yellow shocker with a DM5 board just because the person changed their mind.

ROFLMFAO! Oh my god, did you really make one of those?

[CoolHand]

ROFLMFAO! Oh my god, did you really make one of those?

No, I didn't. I had a kid ask for one, but before we could set the deal up he changed his mind . . . . . . three times. I ended up just telling him to take a hike, because I could see the hand writing on the wall. It was going to end badly, for both of us.

That's the sort of mind I'm getting towards most Mag products now too. Its far too much trouble for the minimal return I get. All the BS from AO, and the horrible luck (which seems only to attack Mag products for some reason ) has forced me to look elsewhere for customers.

[WARPED1]

No, I didn't. I had a kid ask for one, but before we could set the deal up he changed his mind . . . . . . three times. I ended up just telling him to take a hike, because I could see the hand writing on the wall. It was going to end badly, for both of us.

That's the sort of mind I'm getting towards most Mag products now too. Its far too much trouble for the minimal return I get. All the BS from AO, and the horrible luck (which seems only to attack Mag products for some reason ) has forced me to look elsewhere for customers.

Make some Ion stuff too! There's 3 bodies out(besides the plastic ones.)
Team Strange body(coming soon)= $149
FBM Kage= $110
Deadlywind Foehn= $99
Coolhands_______= $??