Stiffi Switch Barrel Kit Question...

[VFX_Fenix]

The Purpose of the sizer section on the Stiffi Switch is this, and nothing more, to prevent a chambered ball from rolling out of the barrel. Anyone who claims the sizer will do more than this is obviouslyu trying to sell something.

The concept of the sizer, or at least a changable sizer as far as I am aware, originated from pump guns like the WGP Sniper/Autococker and the CCI Phantom. The first aftermarket barrel that I can recall that had a set of these interchangable sizers was the OTP serries of the barrels for the Autococker that had little sizer rings. I know that something similar is currently avalible for the Phantom though OTP has stopped making the this style of barrel. Other companies such as LAPCO have made bore sizers similar to the Switch Kit for a number of years as well.

Barrels that use inserts, like the Freak and Scepter, are extensions of this original concept.

For the Switch, it's a .691 Stiffi barrel with a step to .700 and a set of bore sizers to keep paint from rolling out the barrel for any paint smaller than .691 and a little different dressing so you can't directly screw the barrel into a gun. Not worth $200 or what ever they're runnign for these days. Hardly even worth $150 imo but hey. That's just me.

EDIT - And I can't recall who it was, I believe it was AGD that did this test, but they found that overbored barrels left a "zebra stripe" pattern on the inside of the barrel after firing indicating that the ball was moving between the various internal surfaces of the barrel as it traveled. Barrels that saw better matches had, generally 2 stripes running cleanly down the inside of the barrel which got wider or increased in number as the bore of the barrel approached and became smaller than the paint. For those of you that have a hard time wrapping your head around the thought that a paintball can bounce off the internal walls of the without breaking consider how small the angel is that the paintball is striking the barrel surface at AND think about the last time you had a paintball skip off of your head.

[Jaan]

The ball is accelerating so fast that it doesnt bounce around. Its such a tight space that even if it diverged from its flight path that it wouldnt be enough impact to cause a break. I personally dont think that the ball "bounces" inside of a barrel. Its traveling at 200+mph, and the barrel is 14" or so on avg. The ball may touch one side or the other , but I dont imagine it as going like. /\/\/\/\/\/ inside the barrel.

That used to be the problem with smooth bore muskets. They were inacurate because the ball was not a tight fit to the barrel and would bounce around. It doesn't matter how many times the ball bounces inside the barrel, it's the last bounce that counts. The projectile will take the trajectory that it exits the barrel. That's why you can have curved barrels like the flatline.

[slade]

the ball isnt "accelerating so fast it doesnt bounce around," if its heading in a certain direction its going to hit whatever is there (in this case the side of the barrel). saying its accelerating too fast to hit the sides of the barrel is like saying if you shoot at a tree the paint will be going too fast to hit and will curve around it. if you want to see this for yourself, find a large bore barrel/small paint, pour baby powder down the barrel and take one shot. you can see that the ball bounces around.

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

That kind of ball play inf hte barrel makes for less accurate shots, that a fact...

Toms point was made in the video that was mentioned.

The barrels with the size backs that are short are for not letting the ball roll down the barrel? isnt that for Detents? and wtf, a .700 then junk.

Do your home work before you buy...

these new barrels that roll out are crap.

Eric

[automikey]

CCM Stiffi Bore sizer removal tool

Check out my thread titled "CCM Stiffi Bore sizer removal tool ".

[Spaceman613]

closed bolt guns still have rollout even with detents since the ball is past the detent at rest.

cockers, pumps, old shockers, sovereigns, omens.... they all can have rollouts even with ball detents.

And if you have never shot the barrels in question, dont make broad generalizations about all barrels with "short sizers." The original OTP barrels were VERY good (came stock with Bob Long guns, as are Palmer barrels (small paint with wedgits perform the same task).

[onedude36]

EDIT - And I can't recall who it was, I believe it was AGD that did this test, but they found that overbored barrels left a "zebra stripe" pattern on the inside of the barrel after firing indicating that the ball was moving between the various internal surfaces of the barrel as it traveled. Barrels that saw better matches had, generally 2 stripes running cleanly down the inside of the barrel which got wider or increased in number as the bore of the barrel approached and became smaller than the paint. For those of you that have a hard time wrapping your head around the thought that a paintball can bounce off the internal walls of the without breaking consider how small the angel is that the paintball is striking the barrel surface at AND think about the last time you had a paintball skip off of your head.

This man speaks the truth.

[yakitori]

well, I dont think of the ball brushing against either or both sides of a barrel as "bouncing" you just said bounce off your head. Or bouncing off of a target. I see that as a bounce. But a .689 paintball inside of a .691-.700 barrel doesnt "bounce" it may brush agasint one side or the other its more like skimming the side of a barrel because it is such a tight fit.

I think of a bounce as dribbling a basketball, shooting it and "bouncing" it off of the backboard cause it to rebound.

Maybe we just have a different Idea of what "bounce" means.

the point Im trying to make is that a ball "skipping" off of one or either side of the barrel in such a tight space at 200+mph will not lead to more breaks.

Have any of you complaining that the switch kit isnt any good or not accurate cause you are comparing it to a muzzle loader actually shot one? Or are you just using the "anti-hype" comments w/o ever actaully trying the product? Ive shot plenty of barrel kits. Ive shot the odyssey barrel kit that is 3 separate single bore one peice barrels, and it wasnt as accurate as my switch kit. Ive shot AAs, Freaks, JJ ceramics, Lapco bigshots, AGD crown point barrels, and none of them have yeilded any better results than a stepped bore stiffi. How do you say they arent worth the money. They are lighter, have a year warranty, easier to self clean, quieter, durable, and they look better than aluminum barrels IMO. I know looks are opinion but the red mamba is hot.

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

As far as real Guns, well that is an issue i can rock and roll in all day. that is a place i love to be in. I am Hunter and Marksman allday long. Reloader, gunmaker, guncollector, shootist.

As far as Firearms, there is NEVER play in the barrel

as a matter of fact, you cant even put a bullet in a barrel. there is a larger reciever for the casing and bullet, but never play, tight all the way through. but this cant happen with a soft material like gelitan based Paintballs.

As far as Muzzies, i build them all the time for people. they are the same deal, but the bullet is lubed so that you can ramm it down the barrel for loading. when a ball is used, you still need to uase a wad or patch to keep the ball tight, very tight. a loose ball is not accurate.

the point is maybe it isnt bounce but it is movement, play, just to much of it in some of these barrels that are comming out.

the tighter, more controled the ball is for a longer period or amount of time down the barrel, the more accurate the shot will be. Hence the muzzies that are 5 or 7 feet long, they were very accurate for there time, and the snub nose 38 cal. cant hit crap at 50 yards if there is a breeze.

Dont preach the guy that could hit this or that, those are rare situations.

We have to work with what we have here folks, but i do belive that the man who could have helped is gone, and i do believe that any play in barrel, bounce or the Malibu Jig, is NO FRIGGEN GOOD!

AS I MENTIONED BEFORE: we and I have shot all these barrel as well, so this isnt a load. just what i have seen and what i feel. My two cents.

Eric

[VFX_Fenix]

well, I dont think of the ball brushing against either or both sides of a barrel as "bouncing" you just said bounce off your head. Or bouncing off of a target. I see that as a bounce. But a .689 paintball inside of a .691-.700 barrel doesnt "bounce" it may brush agasint one side or the other its more like skimming the side of a barrel because it is such a tight fit.

I think of a bounce as dribbling a basketball, shooting it and "bouncing" it off of the backboard cause it to rebound.

Maybe we just have a different Idea of what "bounce" means.

I never said "bouncing" off your head, I said skipping. However you're arguing symantics which, while valid, doesn't change the fact that you can gather the meaning from the context used within the conversation/post.

Also, I've shot Stiffi's and they are fine barrels, I never said they weren't. I will admit to saying that they aren't worth the money though, at least not to me. The material is lighter, sure, more durable, maybe, a year warrenty, great, self-clean better, opinion, quieter, opinion.

Lighter materials - Carbon fiber is lighter than aluminum, has similar if not greater strength for given applications, and is easier to manufacture than an aluminum barrel.

Durable - Carbon fiber is a durable material and strong, however that integrity is immediately comrpomised when the barrel is chipped or scratched. Carbon Fiber is also is subject to manufacturing defects which can cause failure of the weave and the barrel under stress.

Warrenty - A nice feature, covers them in the event that a flawed barrel leaves the factory or if someone were to be too rough with their barrel.

Self Cleaning - So far I've never seen a barrel that effectively shot clean that wasn't a polished Stainless Steel small bore barrel. Self-cleaning with a stepped bore barrel is just a joke. There's no way that a stepped bore barrel like the Stiffi/Infinity/Boomstick/CP Pro/Freak/All American/etc. etc. etc. because of the way the barrel works. The control bore will be the only portion of the barrel that can be shot clean because the ball actually is what pushes the paint out of the barrel, once the ball gets to the step the ball is no longer "idealy" supported by the barrel and so cannot move the paint past the step out the muzzle. The self cleaning aspect of the barrel is hype, hype that's been pushed for a long time within the barrel industry. No barrel shoots clean, though most barrels do shoot reasonably well after paint has been run through them, a single bore barrel would self clean better than any stiffi.

Quieter - A matter of opinion for most and without difinitive sound testing, the loudness of the barrel is a matter of perspective. Hammer Head is the only company that I know of that has published any sort of audio report data from its barrels.

Accuracy/Consistancy - You said it yourself, none of the other barrels you've shot yielded performance any better than a stepped bore stiffi.

Appearance - In a sport which is largely based on image appearance is a viable reason to buy a barrel and pay a premium price for.

Paint Matching - The Switch uses bore sizers, which serve to prevent roll-out for closed bolt guns with barrels that are of a larger bore than the paint being shot. This is not paint matching within the common context of the term. With "paint matching" the purpose is to match the effective bore of the barrel with the paint to achieve a certain desired fit. Bore sizers do not change the effective bore size as the effective bore is still .691. Barrel kits like the Freak/CP/Scepter/Empire/Etc. all change the effective bore of their barrels through sleeves or backs.

So, what are we left with?

Lighter, Warrenty, Looks. Three things that a Stiff, so far as the arguments I've put forth and I've seen put forth (as I understand them, please feel free to correct me) for why the Stiffi Switch is worth the money.

All three are preference items as well. So where does that leave us? Personal prefference. There are no wrong answers, only believing that your answer is the only answer.

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

So where does that leave us? Personal prefference. There are no wrong answers, only believing that your answer is the only answer.

Thats it a nut shell, i can get a headache going through all that for the Boomy, or the J&J just for the fact that they have been here for a LONG, LONG time and so on, and so on...

Blah, Blah, Blah. Go to conventions, shows, they all sit up there on there boxes with reason after reason for why to use there's.

But it will always be your choice and ask the people that play the most.

again buy good paint, thats a good choice too.

remember this, youll get wooped by a Tippy, with a stock barrel and 12 year old at the other end, it dont matter.

[yakitori]

are you kidding me? when was the last time any paitnballers looked at any "real" scientific study on barrels and paintball physics? I am going to have to laugh at that one. [

They are queiter than other barrels. Thats not opinion. I guess they may not be. It could just be my hearing. Maybe Im gradually getting deaf. Maybe its selective deafness. I just cant hear barrels anymore. A barrel guides a ball where it is going. They arent accurate because they are paintballs.

And like I said, the stiffis have been the most accurate in my opinion of all the barrels Ive shot. And hammerhead is on that list too. And hammerheads sound like firecrackers.

I never said the stiffi self cleans completely. I said it self cleans better than the other barrels Ive used. Maybe you havent used stiffis for any extended period of time, other than shooting someone at the field a few times. Have you owned and used a stiffi for longer than 3 months?

Im totally convinced now. I think I am going to put my stiffi back up for sale and use my stock barrel. Essentially no barrel is worth the money. We might as well all use the stock one then. I will start shooting brass eagle paint too. Why pay more. Its just a gelatin shell filled w/ paint.

I dont think I will be getting whopped by a kid w/ a tippy at the field. I use my pump at fields like that. I dont use my good equipment in scenario, woods games. I will be using the ole sl 68 from now on, with a eh ehm. jj ceramic one piece.

[Eric Of Extreme Measures]

Hey i Know plenty oh guys with Pumps, that run just pumps, with stock barrels, or smooth bore barrels that would make a mess of most of us..

I have teammates that run Tip98's w/one peice J&J's that i would put againt the best of them.

Hey if you need to rely on your gun for all your credit in this sport, then you have issues...
The gun is the tool, YOU are the sport.

Hey do what you want, But I say DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!

We have Stiffi's and Hammerheads on Ebay is you want to be the sucker that buys them!!!!

Please do.

[VFX_Fenix]

are you kidding me? when was the last time any paitnballers looked at any "real" scientific study on barrels and paintball physics? I am going to have to laugh at that one.

"Real" scientific studies are reasonably common and avalible from various sources including WARPIG and AirSoldier, not to mention the tests done by AGD.

They are queiter than other barrels. Thats not opinion. I guess they may not be. It could just be my hearing. Maybe Im gradually getting deaf. Maybe its selective deafness. I just cant hear barrels anymore. A barrel guides a ball where it is going. They arent accurate because they are paintballs.

Depends on where you're standing and how the porting is set-up. The more porting in a barrel the quieter it is, also as the shooter your perception of the sound signature is very different than if you're on the business end of the barrel or even standing 20' off to the side of the barrel. Listening to my E-Mag being shot by other people while I'm on the sidelines and the loudness of the report changes dramatically depending on where I'm standing and how the gun's being pointed. The same thing happens with every gun. The Hammerhead barrel has it's porting pointed back towards the shooter. Looking at their sound signature data the loudest points are behind the muzzle.

And like I said, the stiffis have been the most accurate in my opinion of all the barrels Ive shot. And hammerhead is on that list too. And hammerheads sound like firecrackers.

I never said the stiffi self cleans completely. I said it self cleans better than the other barrels Ive used. Maybe you havent used stiffis for any extended period of time, other than shooting someone at the field a few times. Have you owned and used a stiffi for longer than 3 months?

I owned a 12" Stiffi for almost 6 months. Fine barrel, shot nicely, all that jazz, didn't like the way it felt though on the nose of the E-Mag or my Cocker. Too light for me at a megere 1.8 oz. I'll take my aluminum or stainless steel tubes. I will admit that the last comment on self cleaning was pointed and I must appologise for that. The intent was to debunk Site's claims thouhg it ended up being something else.

Im totally convinced now. I think I am going to put my stiffi back up for sale and use my stock barrel. Essentially no barrel is worth the money. We might as well all use the stock one then. I will start shooting brass eagle paint too. Why pay more. Its just a gelatin shell filled w/ paint.

I dont think I will be getting whopped by a kid w/ a tippy at the field. I use my pump at fields like that. I dont use my good equipment in scenario, woods games. I will be using the ole sl 68 from now on, with a eh ehm. jj ceramic one piece.

Now I'm not sure where this is coming from though the sarcasm dripping from the remarks is about as thick as Nutella. The intent wasn't to disparage the Switch by implying that it wasn't a good barrel. Simply that, as far as I can see, there are three things that the Stiffi has going for it. The Stiffi is lighter, carries a warrenty, and has a unique look. Are these three items worth the premium price that's being demanded? That's a matter of personal opinion and nothing in the world can change someone's opinion.

Personally I'll stick with my Lucky 15's and, though I am loathed to say it, Freak kit.

[billmi]

all I said was that the ball would get the speed it needs from the back. I didn't say that, the back is all you need. The front is for directing the ball to where it needs to go. And I highly doubt that the ball would break in the tip because of that "bounce" actually, I don't even think it would bounce that much at all.

If this is true, and you shot with only the back, then the velocity would be the same as shooting with the back and the front. The difference would be that the shot would be less accurate. It should be pretty simple to test.