Why is Ramping Good?

[SlartyBartFast]

Like the title says.

Besides higher profits from the sales of paint, what advantage does ramping add to the game?

Here's the scenario for the basis of this discussion:

All players wearing and using the exact same equipment.

So, what would be more interesting, challenging, a better test of skills, etc.
What is lost in removing ramping and playing TRUE semi?

So, if you're going to respond give pros and cons for each of the following:

If:

A - All true semi only. One pull. One shot.
B - All ramping 13bps.
C - All ramping 15bps.
D - All ramping at greater than 15bps.
E - All full auto.

THIS IS NOT A RULES DISCUSSION.
IF YOU NOT INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING, GET OUT OF THE THREAD AND IGNORE IT.

[WARPED1]

C, ramping is good for those new to the big events to be able to keep up.





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[SlartyBartFast]

C, ramping is good for those new to the big events to be able to keep up.

Which, IMO is a HUGE negative for the sport.

Competition isn't about levelling the playing field for the new guys.

If you don't have the shooting skills, why the heck should you be given a free pass in a shooting sport?

[68magOwner]

ok, more and more local tournaments have gone to 15bps ramping, and, with that adaptation, i have noted something.

I will play a guy, or a team, shooting semi, and say, we just roll them

then, if I go play the same team or player wiht 15bps ramping, i find that they are much more effective players.

SO, my point is, for experienced players with good gunfighting skills, playing semi is very advantegous (sp) with ramping, it definately takes away from the skills that make up a great player. Sort of evens out the playing field, players who were previously not so good, now play as good as anyone else.
I find that it is much harder to be a standout player when everyone is ramping, because in semi, you could out-gunfight player after player, but, with ramping, everyone can shoot while reloading and it becomes more of a game of getting better angles and avoiding being shot than actually gunfighting someone.

Hmm, sort of difficult to get at what im trying to say, but, mabey someone will understand some of that.

[can'tthink of1]

If you guys were at teh Chicago open you would of seen what I'm talking about.

No one moves off the break, they almost never go past the 40 off the break. They all just sit back and shoot. Game are basically won by each team sitting there and shooting at eachother till 1 guy is left on the other side, then they move up. The games were a bore, and very little bunkerings and such. Paintball has gotten really defensive, just because it's now possible for anyone to rail on their marker. More action my ***.

[WARPED1]

Well, pb is big business now. And the only real way to make money is to sell paint, hence ramping. Sure it's not a skill builder, but big companies don't care how you play. There are options for those that don't like ramping etc. Stock class or modified stock.
It's like when christian fundamentalists complain that the music on the radio offends them. Well, there are 2 knobs on the radio. One changes the station the other turns it off. But those people have trouble touching anything with two knobs on it!

If you guys were at teh Chicago open you would of seen what I'm talking about.

No one moves off the break, they almost never go past the 40 off the break. They all just sit back and shoot. Game are basically won by each team sitting there and shooting at eachother till 1 guy is left on the other side, then they move up. The games were a bore, and very little bunkerings and such. Paintball has gotten really defensive, just because it's now possible for anyone to rail on their marker. More action my ***.

Are you sure you weren't watchin NPPL? Every time I watch Xball there are moves galore!

[SlartyBartFast]

ok, ....

Your point is essentially the same as WARPED1. That ramping helps the lazy, the inexeperienced, and the untalented compete on an equal footing.

But why is that good? If it's a good thing to eliminate skills from a competition, why not use a pitching machine or t-ball stand in MLB?

The height of the basket sure is a drag for short people. Why not lower the NBA nets? It's tough to dribble, run, AND line up for a shot. Why not allow ball carrying inside the key?

Shouldn't the "pros" and the hot shots at the local level want to test ALL their skills and expose ALL their opponents weaknesses?

Why do players then clamour for something that essentially just lines the pockets of the promoters?

[Lohman446]

I don't like the fact that being able to pull the trigger fast is a skill that influences the game. Now I think it is very overrated and I understand people have worked at it, but it just to me does not seem to be something that should impact the outcome. Ramping at 13BPS + (whatever you choose) removes this from being a skill and allows us to test the other skills associated with the game. This is under ideal circumstances though, with absolutely no other considerations as to the negative impact(s) ramping can have.

[SlartyBartFast]

I don't like the fact that being able to pull the trigger fast is a skill that influences the game.

So, you think that ramping is a good thing and that shooting skills shouldn't be part of the game skillset?

So, why not full auto?

And ignore "other" issues. They have no place in this thread.

[Lohman446]

So, you think that ramping is a good thing and that shooting skills shouldn't be part of the game skillset?

So, why not full auto?

And ignore "other" issues. They have no place in this thread.

Why not full auto? Lets test the skills of the player and there equipment. Remember here that I am not saying being able to shoot fast isn't a skill... I think it has some marginal influence on the game. I think it is overrated in its signifigance vastly... I have no problem testing the ability of the players and there equipment, you can feed it lets shoot it, ramping, full auto, whatever. I think we are close to running into a problem in 7 minute games with backplayers being able to carry enough paint in a reasonable manner anyways. Might be fun.

[TheTramp]

...with ramping, everyone can shoot while reloading...

I think this is a big negative. Even with the crazy cheating that became really popular with the WAS board ect there was always the fact that you slowed WAY down when re-loading which gave people a chance to move unless your team was really good at keeping each other covered.

Now you just wiggle your fingers a little bit and blaze away as you re-load. Just about stops the game really. As said before. The teams shoot packs of paint from their first bunker until the other side has 1-2 players left then finaly moves in to mop up. Not that fun to play or watch IMHO.

[can'tthink of1]

Are you sure you weren't watchin NPPL? Every time I watch Xball there are moves galore!

You're a funny guy. This is from watching NXL and PSP games. People only moved when it was down to like 5 vs 2 and crap like that. It was crap imo.. and no one ever went to the 30, 40, or 50 OTB.

The russian legion was the only team I saw constantly bumping up. Heck, some of thier markers were SEMI too.

[Chronobreak]

well its hard to make a stance based on ramping and the legality of guns without bringing a number of other subjects and factors into the convo.

ignoring them simply makes the whole make believe scenario pretty much null and void.

i have also noticed that when the bps goes higher the movement seems to slow down(atleast until one team has higher #'s)

x-ball seems to provide alot of movement most the time, but i would like to see a semi only league at 15 bps no ramping no debounce no..nothing(although minimum deboucne etc are going to be HARD to find and catch 100% of the time) I would like to see how that went and if it was infact a good or bad thing..


so i guess i would say A however i feel that is wishful thinking and will never happen(unles p-ball standards are ever formed and ADHEARED(spl) to)

[r-unit]

C. Ramping 15bps

I think that the main pro of this is the current situation. Look at boards like the Advantage Speedy2. They look exactly the same as a normal board, but when tapped into a special code with the trigger, it ramps- fast. And the refs cant prove it. People will cheat, and do it no matter what, especially since they can often get away with it. However, if ramping is allowed, to a point (15 bps), than the cheaters can cheat, but cannot shoot at dangerous ROF's, such as uncapped ramping that maxes out your loader. Guns can shoot 30+ bps these days. Hoppers are starting to catch up. So basically, since more and more people would start ramping any way, why not just allow it to a pretty fast point, but then stop it before it gets to a point where it's dangerous.
In short, if everybody is doing it, and there's no (reasonable and feasable) way to catch them, then why not allow it, but put a reasonable cap on it?

I'm not very sure about the cons of it. Can't really think of any "good" cons at the moment.

That's in a general situation.

In a situation where everybody is going 15bps, same equipment, I guess since everybodies gear is equal, then it really shows who the good players are.

[RRfireblade]

Me and Lohman have been thru all this stuff before so this is for the rest of you ,

Ramping is bad cause...

Because of it being allowed in the 'Pros' it's become standard at almost every Rec ball field, private or commercial,

It promotes more cheating than ever before,

It's makes it even harder to catch cheating than ever before,

"Pros" are now getting caught (occasionally) on the field shooting 'ramped to feed rate' (22bps+) more and more instead of the 15 that everyone seems to think is fine,

It promotes lazy shooting tactics and a complete lack of any need to develop off hand shooting skills andthe ability to shoot effectively on the run thereby bringing down the quality of even the 'average' player and at the same time negates the hard work and practice put it by the seasened player,

On the Rec side....


It promotes more cheating than ever before,

It's makes it impossible to catch cheating like nothing before,

It allows for massively increased instances of over shooting on the rec ball feeds,

It's (in my witness) created 10 time the danger quotient of 'accidental discharges' that now consist of 10-20 shots into the back of someones head or worse, instead of the typical 1-2,

It make every 'newb' think they must have it (bad), and drives up the cost needed for them to get involved in the sport (more bad), then when they do they're extremely intimidated to take the feild against advanced players cause they don't want to get hurt (worse) and half he time when they do, they get over shoot by some other 'newb' who has no idea how to handle that ROF or even has any concept of what 20bps really means(more worse) and ultimatly drives peole away from the sport. (the worst)

Instead of 'leveling' the playing field like some many people suggests, it makes everyone feel like they 'need' ramping to be competitive. Therefore demanding more expensive equiptment and more paint per game/day which actually now 'unevens' the feild between those who can afford what ever it costs and those who used to be able to afford to play and now are left out.

And.....


Eh.....

That's enough since more discussion on the subject here isn't going to do a dang thing.