Do you NEED ramping for tournies??

[cioeboy]

you should just try out and if you do good he'll know u dont need "agg" gear to be a good player

[68magOwner]

Because of the way software works it is practically impossible for anyone, no matter how fast they may actually be, to achieve 15bps with the MROF of the gun set at 15bps. This is the inherent fault of the limited bps system. The only way to achieve MROF is through either shot buffering or ramping.

yeah, this is the case with some boards, when i played capped semi, my marker had shot buffering, so, it was consistent, but, it would be terribly annoying for the marker to skip shots every time u went over 15

[VFX_Fenix]

Well I wasn't really talking about missing shots because the shooter is actually shooting faster than 15bps all the time (say this magical person can pull 300cps) but rather what most of us CAN do and that's inadvertently spike above 15cps by performing two trigger taps very close together while the average bps is still only, let's say 10bps. That one shot would effectively be lost because of the way most bps cap software works (reads pulls after a certain refractory period).

In an extreme case you'll end up with a really bizzare bursting pattern when your trigger pulls happen to syncronize with the read windows then a slowing down when they're out of sync. Personally I'm fine with BPS Caps, I'm actually curious how the NPPL is going to handle its implimentation of the 15bps cap (got it from an NPPL Ref, they're looking at having the rule in place by Miami). I just hope that people who are subject to the rules of a BPS Cap have the option of at least using some form of shot buffering to limit the "impedance" of the cap itself.

I'm not claiming to be able to shoot really fast, according to most guns I've shot that have ROF displays the best I can do is 14 at a peak and around 10 to 12 consistantly depending on the gun/trigger/etc. Unless its on an Ego, but I question the factory settings a little since, if the gun wasn't adding shots somehow, I'm apparently able to yank over 17bps ( :rofl: ) and it certainly sounded like it. Anyway, I know from trying to shoot on a 13bps capped board that I was losing trigger pulls all over the place, it almost felt like I was missing every 3rd shot. With buffering software that wouldn't happen as much.

[WARPED1]

In todays events, you need the ramping to compete, even the Division 3 teams.

[ottomobile]

I disagree. Superior tactics will win against superior firepower. Unlimited strings of paint lets you keep the guy down where you think he is but you are so focused on that one spot you are toast if he does something unexpected. His balls are going the same muzzle speed as yours no matter how fast you shoot and if he pops up high, low or somewhere you don't expect him you'll be out by the time you react. You may think you have the advantage but it really goes both ways. While you have him bunkered you are giving him time to think and you position. 2-or-3 bps snap/burst shooting is every bit as effective as 15 bps.

Its a misconception that a faster gun is going to make you better. A DM4 in the hands of newbie may make him shoot fast but he's still gonna get tagged out every game. Why? Because his game sucks. He doesn't know tactics, positioning, aiming, communicating or any of the other skills needed to be a good player. You need to learn how to be good at paintball without a gun first. Then, once you have skills, a you'll be able to take advantage of all that a high-end gun offers. I've seen pros who win tourneys with Spyders and Tippmanns. Speed is only one factor. Consistancy, efficiency, weight and accuracy are more important factors to consider. And not all top end guns are created equal.

In my opinion, put the cap back at 13bps. Ramping modes are ruining Speed/Hyper ball and replacing strategy with BFI (Brute force and ignorance)

[NukeGoose]

You can get away with nothing but a fast gun if you're playing newbs on rec-ball days... but if you want to compete in a competitive tournament series, you need to bring your A-game. I always hear people (especially on AO) talk about how a newb with a fast gun will always get destroyed by an experienced player with a low end gun. Well, guess what? I'm an experienced tournament player (I play amateur/open level tournaments, and practice one or two times every single week) and I have a fast gun, and every once in a while I will get tagged if I play walkons by some beginner with a spyder. If you fire paint through an area, there's always a chance that someone will step into it, especially OTB.

Any player has a chance at getting any other player out, it just increases with skill and equipment. When someone talks about ramping guns in tournaments, they're usually not talking about newbs with expensive guns versus experiened people without them. In general, you'll find two evenly matched teams, and many players will take every small advantage to put them over the top.

No, you cannot keep a good person 'bunkered' with one fast gun - there are two sides to every bunker (and some you can come over the top). On a tall bunker, people can snap out low if you're putting paint up high - although snap shooting is becoming a dead art in tournament play, it's better to switch sides and use your gun in a different zone unless you absolutely must control a certain lane. To put it simply, if you're in there looking at nothing but the back of your bunker, you're probably not being effective - and in 5-man play, it's important to have as many guns up as possible.

If I'm putting 15 BPS by your ear, you're not going to snap out there. But even 10 BPS will keep most people from coming out that side, and 5 BPS is enough to lock down a certain spot on a bunker (keep someone from coming out high, or low - but you can't usually lock down both).

Do ramping guns have a place on rec-ball saturdays? Hell no. Do they have a place in tournaments? Yes. I wish that we could go back to everyone playing fair and everyone using semi-auto with no bounce... but that's not going to happen, no matter how much pissing and moaning you (or I) do. Paintball is changing, and you can either deal with it or leave. I hear too many people talk about how it's the man, not the machine, that matters in a game, then they walk out hit complaining about how the other team's ramping guns were the only reason that they lost. A team with a solid game plan (think Dynasty, when they used Angels and 12v Revvies) will always do well, but having fast guns is a huge advantage.

[Aslan]

Do ramping guns have a place on rec-ball saturdays? Hell no. Do they have a place in tournaments? Yes. I wish that we could go back to everyone playing fair and everyone using semi-auto with no bounce... but that's not going to happen, no matter how much pissing and moaning you (or I) do. Paintball is changing, and you can either deal with it or leave. I hear too many people talk about how it's the man, not the machine, that matters in a game, then they walk out hit complaining about how the other team's ramping guns were the only reason that they lost. A team with a solid game plan (think Dynasty, when they used Angels and 12v Revvies) will always do well, but having fast guns is a huge advantage.

Amen. Sometimes I hear people talk about how they can win tournaments with Pirhannas or a Black Maxx or something. Then you ask them what they use and they say, oh, I have an Angel wiht a blah blah blah board shooting 25bps...etc.... So you "can" win with a $40 gun...but since ya got an extra $4000 to throw around...ya figure what the hay!?

I'm not too concerned. I hold my own with what I got. Maybe I have to get an E-Mag or Shocker or Ion to enter the tournament ranks...but for woodsball, rec ball, and scenario games...so far I've held my own with far less, tactics, camoflage, and common sense. I thought I'd enter a 3-man tourney with some friends just to see how we'd do against tourney level players/markers...but the tournament turned out to be rookie/novice rather than "rookie"...which I've heard means it'll probably be stacked with serious competition. Plus, it turned out to be 5-man rather than 3-man so I'd be short players. Oh well...I'll keep my eyes open for a real rookie 3-man and maybe talk my buddies into it...it'd be interesting even if we get smoked.

[Lenny]

My team and I are playing in a 3 man tourney series in Chardon, OH (we're ranked in 4th overall, Team 80 Proof). We play Division B (blowback and mech cockers only) mainly because there's too much cheating in the Division A. They just banned ramping at the tourney, I'm so glad. I like to play against people, not just thier markers.