Speedball will die...

[BigEvil]

After reading some of the above posts and thinking a little about this topic, I have to disagree. Speedball, as a format, is going to be around. I agree with most of what was said regarding the horrible conduct that as been permitted during games, and I think that this sort of behavior needs to be delt with.

However, having small fields that do not require acres to set up, that allow quickly played games is a format that is going to stay around. Unless somewhere along the line the trend reverts back to retro-style woodsball play, speedball will be at all comercial fields for the forseeable future.

The 'Culture of speedball' must go, however, it is a result of the continued growth of the game. It was just a few years ago that there where only a small number of people who played paintball and they were always mindful of the image they were projecting around them. Especially to non-players who thought they were all Rambo-warmongers running around the woods conducting militia trainiing.

The same sort of thing is going on in little-leauge sports around the nation. I've seen some especially disheartening things during high school hockey games. Im sure its not surprise that much of it comes from the parents. How can anyone expect kids to act civilized when they see their parents thwoing fists in the stands?

My point being is that this sort of thing is not just unique to paintball. At least now there are enough different places to play where you can pick up and take your business elswhere if you see something you dont like.

[buzzboy]

Again on the language issue. You guys should play outlaw ball with my friends. The whole game its, "die mother f****** " or, "I'm going to kill you, you little b****" or, "f*** you a hole". Yeah. But then again its outlaw ball. There is not public to say anything or little kids to be offended. If you are in public playing at a real feild then you should not cheat or break any rules or such. It just makes you look dumb

[cdacda13]

hey cdacda13, I AM A TRUCK DRIVER, and i don't talk like that in public(in my truck screaming at you fing four wheelers is a different story)

I knew I should have said, I have nothing againest truck drivers.

[Evil Bob]

Nah, speedball wont die, field owners like the ammount of paint players burn through and the quick turn around as you get alot more games in playing speedball then you do woodsball in the same ammount of time. Plus you can set a speedball field nearly anywhere you have open space and zoning permits to do so. It just makes more sense financially for the field owners.

-Evil Bob

[VFX_Fenix]

Speedball is a spectator friendly version of Paintball. Only the spectator friendly versions of paintball will ever see any sort of media coverage and so Speedball is the hope of the further mainstreaming of this sport of ours. Like in a lot of sports there are cultures which reside within them and certain mindsets of players within those cultures. As it stands there are generally two types of speedball players, tournament players and non-tournament players, the latter can further be broken into two other groups which are the posers and everyone else.

By and large with my experience of players its the poser group that cause the biggest problems. The tournament players that I've cone into contact with have largely been very approachable, friendly and reasonable players. There are always gripes about reffing, that's something that's unavoidable in a sport which relies to heavily uppon the honesty of the participants and the ability of the ref's to actually see everything that's going on. There are also outbursts when pride, money, or both are on the line. Part of the problem with the culture is the lack of media coverage. Those who've seen tournament paintball only on TV/DVD/VHS/WMV/AVI/MPG/Etc. see only the most sensational and often worst parts of the game beause those are the parts that people find the most exciting. These parts are then emulated by the people that either 1) don't know any better or 2) think it makes them cool in situations where these actions are inappropriate (excesive force/bunkering/fits/etc.) given either the environment (recball) or what/who its directed at (tantrums/fits/throwing gear/etc.).

Every tournament serries has rules against these types of outbursts and penalties for such outbursts. So as a rule more than an exception actual tournament players must be better behaved than the average player or it can (and often will) cost them on the field. This isn't to say that they don't have poor judgement or that they don't do the things mentioned above. However consider that the rest of the time when the average tournament baller is playing and being "a good example" the lense isn't on them because, who wants to see that, right?

Case in point, Rocky Knuth (sp?) from the Naughty Dogs, I've seen him play, I've seen films of ND games, and the one event that suddenly draws everyone's attention to him is the outburst that was captured on PBVids.com where the ND's boycott the PSP. Was this Rocky's most shining momment? No, but has it hurt his public image? Sure, any sort of coverage which shows players in less than ideal situations with such outbursts drags a player down in the opinions of people who many not have even seen or heard of them before. So what happens? Someone who's a closet Naughty Dogs fan suddenly says "I'm going to be like Rocky" and next thing you know, fits on the field and yelling at refs.

I've seen it happen when new players get sucked into the poser culture because they think the people they're emulating are better players. It's what people do, they emulate those they respect/admire. I've also seen new players that have latched onto the tourney guys, granted, they don't all go off and join teams, but the ones that do are usually the better for it. The guys to watch out for are the ones that think they "have game" and just haven't found a team yet to play with but they're at the field every week talkin' the same trash and bringing the same bad attitudes.

So here I've gone on and on defending the "speedball culture" and pointing the finger at one aspect of it. Does this make me right? Certainly not, it's how I see it from my personal experience. A guy I've played with and who's well respected where I come from what in an incident recently and it isn't even funny how many people are willing to come out of the woodwork and say "Oh, he's a poor example." "I hope he @$#% dies." etc. etc. etc. nothing but bashing on a guy who I've played with several times and has been the most laid-back, square shootin' player I've ever known. I mean a real stand-up guy that I'd hope to be like as both a person and a player and I was shocked to hear about what happend with him. Call it a lapse in judgement, call it what ever you want, it's still shocking and extremely upsetting that it happend with him.

Bottom line, no one ever gets good press because the press isn't out to find good people. Bad news always travels faster than good news. And everyone has the so called "Bad Day". Unfortunately people are very ready to focus on the bad and neglect to mention the good which is where I ultimately point the finger. Every last one of us is guilty of setting a bad example to someone when we play paintball. I'm willing to bet that all of us have argued with someone either on the field or off the field, I'm willing to bet that all of us have had some show of a temper when we felt we've been cheated or been treated with a bias. And ultimately the drama that surrounds those events have embeded themselves into the minds of our fellow paintballers and set a precident for those that follow us.

You may disagree with me, but by being an experienced player, be you the old fogie that remembers when the Nelspot 007 was a hot piece, the guy who knows how to fix everything, the local hot shot, tourney baller extraordinar, or just the average Joe on the field who's been playing this game for long enough to know a few tricks, we are the role models of our sport and the people who show up at the fields we frequent will follow the examples we set. Be mindful that even if you do have an outburst and later go back to appologise for it, very few will either notice or remember the apology. Damage control is something that cannot be reasonably done.

Don't like the speedballer attitude at your field? Do what you can to discourage it or bring it up with the field owner or someone who has some authority when something big happens. I've personally had to escort players off of fields and to their cars before. The tollerance level for bad attitudes and excesively agressive play in a rec environment is entirely too high either because people assume that it's expected and that's the way the game is, or because the field owner doesn't have enough of a spine to tell them to get lost if it's brought to their attention. Ask the offending players to calm down/cease what ever it is they're doing that you find inapropriate. Players governing players, that was how paintball used to be. Now it seems like anymore if there's an issue with a player either nothing is done or the ref/field owner is automatically expected to know about it and do something. Fields which simply say "No Speedball" aren't helping the situation but rather avoiding the problem until someone else can come up with a solution. Ultimately change must be initiated by those which have the least ammount of recourse over the situation, the players.

The solution that I see is to have players take responcibility for the actions of others and make it their job to police the other players on their fields. The players have the most intimate contact with those who are the "trouble makers" in our sport and are their peers. If we expect to initiate change we can't expect the "establishment" to do it for us nor can we expect any change to occur overnight. We can't expect the "public intrest" to change either, so negative coverage will persist because we all want to see blood and carnage, even if its only to a lesser degree (remember the last time you drove by a car accident?). Expect the Pro's to still have highlight clips with poor conduct and super agressive play because those are the things that are exciting to us. Pro players, I believe, are generally good people who are caught at their worst (except for Chris LaSoya because well... he admits to being bad and is just that way )

Oh and ummm....

Speedball won't die.... :spit_take

[JRingold]

All good points, but I thought the golden rule was, "He who holds the gold makes the rules." :spit_take

[VFX_Fenix]

All good points, but I thought the golden rule was, "He who holds the gold makes the rules." :spit_take

So long as no one needs to go into a "cave of wonders".....

[mobsterboy]

CPPL all the way baby!!!

[Slimm Jimm]

i know this isn't the main issue on this thread, i'll get there, but speedball and xball will not be what makes paintball a televised event. to much going on in to few seconds to be able to effectivly convey events to an audience that can only watch from one angle at a time. "gladiator" type events, one on ones or two on two's, where the action isn't as spread out, will be what makes that leap, and with it favorites and heroes. Only then can it grow back into team based publicity. a step back to make a leap forward.

Now, the other thing that needs to happen is to reduce the language, this sport is going to be carried forward by the 10 and 12 year olds on the field. they are watching you. ever walked the end of a field and have the kids going "are you going to play on our team? cool." They're saying it because they've watched you and liked what you did. Now then, go and play clean ball and be good examples. (taking bets on how many actually will now.)

[cioeboy]

i dont get what the big deal is about cussing in speedball
where i play cussing is held to a minimum when kids and parents are there but in the last year i have seen some 10 year olds talking worse than anyone

[MadPSIence]

Sorry guy. Coming from me.. a person that hates ramping, and could complain about tourny paintball all day.. speedball will never die.

Not for a long time.

There's no argument.

[Recon by Fire]

Speedball, woodsball, tournament, or recball, it does not matter... those players with poor sportsmanship and attitudes makes all of look bad. We have a generation of little disrespectful hethens in our midst. There is a fix for it though, but not an easy one. Enforce standards! I know tha is not a popular idea in today's society. Field owners and refs enforce some deceny standards on the customers and tournament refs (you have the hardest job here) you just plain need to be brutal!

I would have to be the direlect agg players worse nightmare as a ref! No warnings, or anything else, cheat, you're out...period. Open that mouth in a disrespectful way, you're out. Open it again, and I will just continue pulling your teammates. Keep earning those big "0" torunament scores and they will either change their attitudes or just go away. Or we can just continue as we have been and tolerate all their crap and let them run amok over society.

[Aslan]

Agreed

Speedball, woodsball, tournament, or recball, it does not matter... those players with poor sportsmanship and attitudes makes all of look bad. We have a generation of little disrespectful hethens in our midst. There is a fix for it though, but not an easy one. Enforce standards! I know tha is not a popular idea in today's society. Field owners and refs enforce some deceny standards on the customers and tournament refs (you have the hardest job here) you just plain need to be brutal!

I would have to be the direlect agg players worse nightmare as a ref! No warnings, or anything else, cheat, you're out...period. Open that mouth in a disrespectful way, you're out. Open it again, and I will just continue pulling your teammates. Keep earning those big "0" torunament scores and they will either change their attitudes or just go away. Or we can just continue as we have been and tolerate all their crap and let them run amok over society.

Agreed. Reffing is a hard job...but when it comes ot paintball...it is the difference between a good day at the field and a bad day at the field. When I go to the field and the refs are being harsh...okay, it's a pain...but I end up having more fun and nobody gets hurt. When I go and the refs are messing around and acting like idiots who would rather be ANYWHERE but at the paintball field...guns start shooting faster...people start taking their masks off earlier...pretty soon tempers start to rise...overshooting, etc...

[Albinonewt]

So long as markers shoot fast and fields make money on paint you can bet speedball will live forever. Or as one field owner called it to me, "Money Ball".

[SlartyBartFast]

Speedball is a spectator friendly version of Paintball. Only the spectator friendly versions of paintball will ever see any sort of media coverage and so Speedball is the hope of the further mainstreaming of this sport of ours.

People keep saying that. NPPL and PSP organisers have wet dreams about it. But no one has made a convincing argument that it's a good thing.