Redefining AGD

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Yep. We listed "Innovation" under what AGD is good at. I'm sure if they would put their heads together, they could come up with something.

I forgot about that little part. I'm sure they could find some way of producing a small fast hopper.

They kind of set them selves up for this. The X-valve is such a solid design, they can't do much for it. They can't produce drop in kits that everyone would buy. It seems like it was made to be set and forget (i.e. no upgrades), while all other companies have designs in which upgrades are applicable.

Who knows, maybe they will surprise us in a year, 5 years or 10 years. We'll just have to wait and see...

[phantomhitman]

Make a good looking, compact and light, quality marker that can shoot faster (via bouncing/cheating/ramping/full auto demo) than anyone can pull and that you can buy for under $1300. Forget the team sponsorship for now and work on getting the hype out to the kiddies, and once it catches on (that is were advertising and luck come in) then start sponsoring teams. I know agd already has the development, and by far the knowledge, to put out a new tourney aimed marker. The question is not can they do that, it is do they want to do that.

[FreakBaller12]

Make a good looking, compact and light, quality marker that can shoot faster (via bouncing/cheating/ramping/full auto demo) than anyone can pull and that you can buy for under $1300. Forget the team sponsorship for now and work on getting the hype out to the kiddies, and once it catches on (that is were advertising and luck come in) then start sponsoring teams. I know agd already has the development, and by far the knowledge, to put out a new tourney aimed marker. The question is not can they do that, it is do they want to do that.

as miscue said, they're not good at marketing. Look at roguefactor, or logic, they do little to no marketing and get a good amount of buisness, Tuna does probably no marketing, and he stills has tons of work by word of mouth. If AGD put out a, let's see an Ion body, or something Ion(since everybody and their mom has an ion). By word of mouth it could catch on, put something out for, a dmc, an ego, a timmy. If it's a good quality part(which AGD does produce) it would catch on.
The real question is, would AGD ever fund something like that? Probably not.
Would I support them and tell everybody if they ever did something like that? Hell yea.

[Automaggot68]

as miscue said, they're not good at marketing. Look at roguefactor, or logic, they do little to no marketing and get a good amount of buisness, Tuna does probably no marketing, and he stills has tons of work by word of mouth. If AGD put out a, let's see an Ion body, or something Ion(since everybody and their mom has an ion). By word of mouth it could catch on, put something out for, a dmc, an ego, a timmy. If it's a good quality part(which AGD does produce) it would catch on.
The real question is, would AGD ever fund something like that? Probably not.
Would I support them and tell everybody if they ever did something like that? Hell yea.

Logic, Tuna, Rogue?
They ALL advertise.
Logic on AO and PBn.
Rogue and tuna on AO ( dont go to PBn, so i dont know for sure)
It isn't word of mouth.
If those dealers didn't post their products on the Pages of PB talk, we wouldn't know who they were, or what they were selling.
it's Advertising.

[FreakBaller12]

Logic, Tuna, Rogue?
They ALL advertise.
Logic on AO and PBn.
Rogue and tuna on AO ( dont go to PBn, so i dont know for sure)
It isn't word of mouth.
If those dealers didn't post their products on the Pages of PB talk, we wouldn't know who they were, or what they were selling.
it's Advertising.

I was thinking along the lines of advertising in magazines, at fields, places like PBgear, ads on PBN, but I guess your right advertising is advertising.

[Automaggot68]

I was thinking along the lines of advertising in magazines, at fields, places like PBgear, ads on PBN, but I guess your right advertising is advertising.

Well even then, you still have a good point.
I didn't mean to stomp all over it, if I seemed like it.

[FreakBaller12]

Well even then, you still have a good point.
I didn't mean to stomp all over it, if I seemed like it.

nah it's cool, I didn't explain my point too well.
I feel like there are 2 types of advertising in paintball. Smalltime advertising and the huge paintball marketing. Which AGD is still in the small time, if they're there at all. Places like NPS, empire, SP, and DYE control the large marketing section. If AGD had the money they could break through, but I don't think they do.

[Automaggot68]

nah it's cool, I didn't explain my point too well.
I feel like there are 2 types of advertising in paintball. Smalltime advertising and the huge paintball marketing. Which AGD is still in the small time, if they're there at all. Places like NPS, empire, SP, and DYE control the large marketing section. If AGD had the money they could break through, but I don't think they do.

I agree, valid points.

[stop whining buy a mag]

Miscue-1 cookie for you if you buy AGD and do these improvements.

I'm sure Zupe is doing something right now. But, AGD is basically coasting along right now without a light at the end of the tunnel.

[xsiegex]

Change is good.

[Carbon]

AGD is only a 1 million dollar licensing fee away from the next level.

[AGD]

You know these are all good ideas but there is just too many hurtles to get over. Licensing, research and development investment, cost of parts, marketing dollars and at the end of the day there needs to be a profit so you can do it all again.

The margins in paintball are not high enough at the small manufacturer level to make this happen with its own dollars. It would take a multi million dollar infusion to get back in the game. The other option is to have a runaway product hit (like the I-Pod) that puts you back in the action. We tried this with several things like LV10 and Warp Feed which didn't have the required effect.

We are still trying to link up with a big money partner that can make things happen. This is not an easy or fast process especially given what's going on in paintball. AGD thanks you for your support and I wanted to let you know personally that while we are still just simmering in the pot I am still trying to make things happen.

Thanks,

AGD

[RingOfScale]

hmmm ... yeah $$$ to get started is a problem. Paintball is a *relatively* expensive hobbie. Lots of rich kids play it. About now if when we need someone worth $ 100 million to throw $ 5 million at AGD to get their next super project started :) ... the sad part is I think all the millionaires who play paintball are shooting G7s and DMCs, not $500 mags ...

-rIng

[Scott Hudnall]

Thanks for the update, AGD/TK. Nice to hear from you on the boards.

[deathstalker]

I think the issue AGD has is their target market has dwindled away. Think of the "evolution" of a newer player's gun purchasing habits. Up until a few years ago, they usually started with a mechanical stacked-tube blowback or Tippman, moved up to a mechanical Autococker or AutoMag, and finally moved up into the world of electropneumatic markers. For a lot of newer players, the cost of upgrading equipment made this linear progress very common.

Nowadays, the cost of entry-level markers is very low, the cost of a "mid-grade" marker is very low, and only the newest of the new electropneumatic markers are priced out of most players' wallet. I can go to eBay right now and buy a brand new B2K4 for $200, and even Promasters can be found for $350. Factor in the current resale market and one can purchase awesome gear at awesome prices. As I'm typing this, I'm heading over to airgun.com to check prices... Hmm, a Pro Classic costs $229. What do I get for my moolah?

1. A SS powerfeed body (no thanks)
2. Mechanical CF single trigger frame (no thanks)
3. No lvl X (no thanks, and it costs $85 to add on?!?)
4. Crown Point barrel (eh, who uses stock barrels, anyway )
5. At least I get rubber wraps and not the plastic panels

I'm sorry, but this is simply not a competitive marker by any means (features, performance, price, etc.). Sure, the RT-ULE Custom costs $340, but again, I wouldn't be quick to proclaim any of the features of the stock configuration.

A few weeks ago, I picked up a BNIB '03 Excalibur for $420. Head over to airgun.com and see what you can buy for the same price, then ask yourself what you would rather have. To start you off, adding a black ULE body and lvl X to the Pro Classic will run you $371 (with no barrel). Go ahead, add an Intelliframe. I dare you. Say what you want about service and/or reliability. It's been my experience that my AGD products are no more or less reliable than any other products I own. They are just as user-friendly and user-serviceable as anything else I have. While AO is certainly a collaborative community, I've never found myself with a lack of support for any of my other markers.

Don't take this post the wrong way, as I absolutely love my E-Mag, consider it my primary, and have spent a lot of time and money on it to make it fit me. Out of all my markers, my E-Mag is the only one I can say works as an extension of myself. It's not something I can quantify, nor something I can put my finger on, but let's just say my E-Mag has a personality that meshes perfectly with mine. The problem is, AGD can't use something like that to sell their products.