Anyone making doing custom pneumatic mag frames?

[Alpha]

How can AGD persue it if PTP owns the patent? Dont tell me when you were with PTP they were waiting for AGD to take it and run?

From what I understand, this frame was ideolized to have been able to have versians for cockers and other sear trippers. Why didnt WGP persue it? Spyder? Tippmann?

[Muzikman]

For what I know AGD dropped their interest with DW because of PTP. I can only assume why they would not buddy up with PTP again.

That all being said, when the idea was first brought public by DW, it was a great idea. Today, the market has shifted and if your product is not electronic shooting 30bps and not cheap it will not make it. There are exceptions, but the Pneumatic frame is not one of them.

[RRfireblade]

How can AGD persue it if PTP owns the patent? Dont tell me when you were with PTP they were waiting for AGD to take it and run?

From what I understand, this frame was ideolized to have been able to have versians for cockers and other sear trippers. Why didnt WGP persue it? Spyder? Tippmann?

Back when this all started PTP would haved worked with AGD in a second, could have easily included DW at that time. Curious tho how that was about the time Tom pulled the strings on AGD future develpment and then there after announced retirement but I can't speak for him on that subject. One can only assume that is this product was such a good thing for AGD , AGD would think so too. WGP IS pursuing it on 2 different from and is why the initial product focus is what it was...I guess you can go ask them why it's taking them so long too. and K2 is now in control of the whole Patent side. PTP has nothing to do with the legal actions going on with Patents they've now since licensed out.

[Alpha]

Back when this all started PTP would haved worked with AGD in a second, could have easily included DW at that time. Curious tho how that was about the time Tom pulled the strings on AGD future develpment and then there after announced retirement but I can't speak for him on that subject. One can only assume that is this product was such a good thing for AGD , AGD would think so too. WGP IS pursuing it on 2 different from and is why the initial product focus is what it was...I guess you can go ask them why it's taking them so long too. and K2 is now in control of the whole Patent side. PTP has nothing to do with the legal actions going on with Patents they've now since licensed out.

there ya go! Dont just blame AGD on it.

[GT]

Back when this all started PTP would haved worked with AGD in a second, could have easily included DW at that time. Curious tho how that was about the time Tom pulled the strings on AGD future develpment and then there after announced retirement but I can't speak for him on that subject. One can only assume that is this product was such a good thing for AGD , AGD would think so too. WGP IS pursuing it on 2 different from and is why the initial product focus is what it was...I guess you can go ask them why it's taking them so long too. and K2 is now in control of the whole Patent side. PTP has nothing to do with the legal actions going on with Patents they've now since licensed out.

I dont want to start a fight in this thread, although the other thread I am game. When you say "would haved worked with ;" Do you mean worked with like SP did with ICD and AKA or do you mean worked with like WGP and eclipse.

All of those players were "worked" in some way, however the SP thing didnt really work for a number of companies.

[RRfireblade]

I dont want to start a fight in this thread, although the other thread I am game. When you say "would haved worked with ;" Do you mean worked with like SP did with ICD and AKA or do you mean worked with like WGP and eclipse.

All of those players were "worked" in some way, however the SP thing didnt really work for a number of companies.

PTP and AGD has always worked together as close friends. PTP develped the Emag (Patent applied for) and handed it to AGD for a song. Before that, the first aftermarket bodies for the Mag and all the other accessories to follow. Before that PTP developed the PT Spacer system and stopped producing it at the request of Tom so AGD could. PTP developed the first aftermarket double trigger frame for the mag and handed it to the whole PB world, the list goes on and on. Most of which no one has any idea about especially since PTP has shifted it's line from exclusively Tourny products to scenerio...now all of a sudden it's not what have you done but what have you done for me lately.

I'm quite sure that if AGD was even remotely interested in marketing this product with PTP, it would have easily been worked out. Forest and Tom go WAY back...way. But at that time, Tom wanted out of the business and it is 'my' feeling that he wasn't going to start another project like this regardles. Check the old hAir threads and see for yourself how he expressed great concern over the ability to manufacture such a complex product. He was never sure, as far as I can tell, that AGD was going to get involved and that was well before the Patent issues came up. My gut feeling is he was looking for an excuse to back out with out having to take the heat himself. (Just 'my' feeling)

PTP is primarily an R&D firm and really is not large enough or have the capacity to do mass production...they don't really want to either way.They would have been glad to hand it over as long as both parties benefit from the partnership. What good is a royalty if you don't sell any units? Common sense really.

But I'm going to say this for the last time (I keep saying that huh? )...

Never said the P Frame is dead, never said it's delays have anything to do with market share, never siad it's delays have anything to do with interest in the Mag market and never said it's delays have anything to do with profitability at this point. The dealer thread show'd the numbers I theorized would make production a reality and as of today , 10/25/2005 , I have every reason to believe it's still going to happen.

There simply is no real rush , the Mag market isn't going anywhere and the Mag users aren't in desperate need of this frame. They aren't going to trade in thier mag if this frame doesn't come out. Those that do or did trade thier Mag over this delay would have done so eventually regardless...a trigger frame isn't going to change a Mag into a Timmy or DM6. It's not going to make you competitive against the 15bps+ rampers and it's not going to get you a pro sponsorship. It's not going to " Put the Mag back on the Map".

IMO , it's not a life changing issue in the world of paintball. I'm not sure why some of you are making it so....I really don't undersand it with all the 'real' issues that have been going on in the paintball world and with AGD in particular.

[Lohman446]

I dont want to start a fight in this thread, although the other thread I am game. When you say "would haved worked with ;" Do you mean worked with like SP did with ICD and AKA or do you mean worked with like WGP and eclipse.

All of those players were "worked" in some way, however the SP thing didnt really work for a number of companies.

What company worked with SP and failed? Those that chose not to work with them? Planet Eclipse, Dye, WGP, ICD, all seem to be doing fine once they decided that SPs patent was valid.

[11 Bravo]

Still wondering why no one is pissed at AGD for not pursuing this product? Dropping the ball on DW? Have no desire to work with PTP? Not to mention AGD's just going to trash any aftermarket effort by anyone anyway....

Hmm.....

I am. I am very dissapointed in them. I think they are letting us all down.

[GT]

What company worked with SP and failed? Those that chose not to work with them? Planet Eclipse, Dye, WGP, ICD, all seem to be doing fine once they decided that SPs patent was valid.

I am not going to spell it out for you. There have been a number of markers that were not or are not made anymore because of the sp "patent" that everyone knows is a crock of crap.

[Lohman446]

I am not going to spell it out for you. There have been a number of markers that were not or are not made anymore because of the sp "patent" that everyone knows is a crock of crap.

If its so obvious how come noone has successfully challenged it in court (WDP aside)? The fact of the matter is, they held a patent that not even K2 challenged - and they have patent attorneys readily available. It seems the only people challenging the validity of the patent are doing so from the sidelines, and the vast majority of them without enough information to have a clue what they are talking about. I'm sorry if they made a better business move than others to get it, but it does not change the fact they have it

What SP did, or what is the general beleif they did with the limited knowledge we have: Issued cease and desist orders and let the past go, allowing companies to sell existing stock and even to assemble markers from existing components for sale.

What SP could have done (I think): Issued cease and desist orders and sued for past damages from every electro marker ever sold that may have harmed sales of there markers. Further they could have demanded destruction of currently on-sold markers in inventory or components to manufacture that were in violation of the patent.

I think what they did was rather reasonable, considering the cards they hold.

[phantomhitman]

I will destroy you all

No lie, that is what I overheard him say at last years "Rulers of the Paintball World".



You people need to get real, ptp has the patent and regardless of how innocent it may seem NO ONE should even mention selling a similiar gun. Even making a few for friend is wrong and everyone knows it. Fireblade has every right to say what he is saying, and he even warned him before it escalated to the internet fight it has become.