Illinois legislature could BAN PAINTBALL in Illinois!

[Cow hunter]

This is dangerous, now your lumping paintball markers in with firearms and other weapons meant to secure our freedom. That would make it much easier to ban the sport, and is infact why some many people adamantly refer to them as "markers".

i was refering more to the fact of the law in general, not paintball, so IN GENERAL, it would be unconctitutional to pass a law against guns, and even if they do, our "markers" are not firearms and therefore cannot be included in this law

[grEnAlEins]

I was talking about why they hadn't been opposing the whole law, as it pertains to firearms also, but I was informed earlier that they are indeed lobbying against it.

They cetainly are, in fact I just recieved their NRA-ILA form letters to send to my reps and a letter about exactly what the bill covers

[Ace12GA]

I read most of the first page, and couldn't be bothered to read the rest, so if I repeat something, I apologize.

In Canada we have been fighting with laws like this for ages; specifically related to airsoft. Paintball has never been an issue, because by Canadian law paintball guns clearly fall under the laws pertaining to airguns. Now I am not that familiar with American law, but I imagine it clearly defines firearms VS airguns. If it does, it will be very very hard to say a paintball gun is a firearm. Nor will you really be able to call it a replica. Atleast in Canada; Canadian law defines a replica as a device that is designed to look exactly like a real firearm, but does not discharge a projectile. While an airgun is defined as a device designed to fire a projectile up to 500FPS. Anything over 500FPS is considered a firearm under Canadian law.

Now with all that Canadian law stuff said, I cannot imagine American law is that different from ours, atleast in definitions of firearms, replicas, and airguns. It would be next to impossible to say a paintball gun is a firearm, even the milsim stuff would be hard to call a replica, aside from the RAP4 stuff.

[crewbe]

from paintball-players.org

http://www.paintball-players.org/

Illinois Legislaton Update - Paintball is Fine!
We have spoken with Representative Daniel J. Burke's office. Burke is the sponsor of HB4132, which originally had some language of potential concern to paintball players. As we previously stated, the goal of the legislation was clearly not to impact paintball, and as of Feb 1, the bill has been amended to merely prohibit using look-alilke weapons in a threatening manner. You can have them, display them, use them in your paintball scenario games, just don't use them in a robbery.

For your reference, the new text of the HB4132 reads: (Direct Link to IL Legislature Website)

"Section 5. The Criminal Code of 1961 is amended by adding
Section 24-11 as follows:

(720 ILCS 5/24-11 new)
Sec. 24-11. Replica military style weapons.
(a) It is unlawful for any person to use any replica rocket propelled grenade launcher, bazooka, artillery piece, grenade, mine, bomb, or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items in a threatening manner.
(b) Sentence. A violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.".

As stated below, the other bill, HB2414, never did, and still does not, have any bearing on paintball. HB2414 only affects real firearms, and paintball markers are not firearms under Illinois law. (See: (430 ILCS 65/1.1))
Pending Legislation in Illinois
Many players have brought to our attention two bills currently pending in the Illinois legislature, HB2414 and HB4132, and many people are quoting the synopsis of the bills. While we, as paintball players, must always diligently act to make sure our sport is protected from an undue legislative burden, it is also not productive to have an unwarrented response to pending legislation, and prudent to read and understand the actual full text of proposed legislation.

HB2414 relates to firearms, and has no bearing on paintball. According to Illinois law, a paintball gun is NOT A FIREARM. (430 ILCS 65/1.1) states:

"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

1. any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B.B gun which ... expels ... breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

That leaves us with HB4132. The actual text of the bill may be shorter than the synopsys, so we've reproduced it here: (Full Text from Illinois Legislature Website)

Section 5. The Criminal Code of 1961 is amended by adding Section 24-11 as follows:

(720 ILCS 5/24-11 new)
Sec. 24-11. Replica military style weapons.
(a) It is unlawful for any person to purchase, possess, use, sell, give away, or otherwise transfer, or to engage in the business of selling, or to exhibit for sale, any replica rocket propelled grenade launcher, bazooka, artillery piece, grenade, mine, bomb, or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items.
(b) Sentence. A violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.

This bill also doesn't affect paintball markers, but the bill is rather poorly drafted with regards to paintball and it is possible that someone may have to go through a court case to clarify the ambiguous language. Specifically, when things like grenades, mines and bombs are explicitly listed and guns are not, guns are likely not intended to be included, but the verbage "or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items" is does introduce some ambiguity, although clearly the majority of firearms are not manufactured for military purposes. We also understand that the bill's effect on props commonly used in paintball scenario games is of greater concern. APPA will work with legislators to amend the language to be more clear or kill the bill in committee.

It is most important to note here that, unlike many times in the past, the goal of the legislation is clearly NOT to negatively impact paintball. The problem is merely that those who drafted the bill are not familiar with all facets of the sport and merely need to be calmly informed of the consequences the bill has on our sport as written so that those consequences can be remedied.

[NinjaoftheNight79]

from paintball-players.org

http://www.paintball-players.org/

Illinois Legislaton Update - Paintball is Fine!
We have spoken with Representative Daniel J. Burke's office. Burke is the sponsor of HB4132, which originally had some language of potential concern to paintball players. As we previously stated, the goal of the legislation was clearly not to impact paintball, and as of Feb 1, the bill has been amended to merely prohibit using look-alilke weapons in a threatening manner. You can have them, display them, use them in your paintball scenario games, just don't use them in a robbery.

For your reference, the new text of the HB4132 reads: (Direct Link to IL Legislature Website)

"Section 5. The Criminal Code of 1961 is amended by adding
Section 24-11 as follows:

(720 ILCS 5/24-11 new)
Sec. 24-11. Replica military style weapons.
(a) It is unlawful for any person to use any replica rocket propelled grenade launcher, bazooka, artillery piece, grenade, mine, bomb, or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items in a threatening manner.
(b) Sentence. A violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.".

As stated below, the other bill, HB2414, never did, and still does not, have any bearing on paintball. HB2414 only affects real firearms, and paintball markers are not firearms under Illinois law. (See: (430 ILCS 65/1.1))
Pending Legislation in Illinois
Many players have brought to our attention two bills currently pending in the Illinois legislature, HB2414 and HB4132, and many people are quoting the synopsis of the bills. While we, as paintball players, must always diligently act to make sure our sport is protected from an undue legislative burden, it is also not productive to have an unwarrented response to pending legislation, and prudent to read and understand the actual full text of proposed legislation.

HB2414 relates to firearms, and has no bearing on paintball. According to Illinois law, a paintball gun is NOT A FIREARM. (430 ILCS 65/1.1) states:

"Firearm" means any device, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas or escape of gas; excluding, however:

1. any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun or B.B gun which ... expels ... breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors;

That leaves us with HB4132. The actual text of the bill may be shorter than the synopsys, so we've reproduced it here: (Full Text from Illinois Legislature Website)

Section 5. The Criminal Code of 1961 is amended by adding Section 24-11 as follows:

(720 ILCS 5/24-11 new)
Sec. 24-11. Replica military style weapons.
(a) It is unlawful for any person to purchase, possess, use, sell, give away, or otherwise transfer, or to engage in the business of selling, or to exhibit for sale, any replica rocket propelled grenade launcher, bazooka, artillery piece, grenade, mine, bomb, or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items.
(b) Sentence. A violation of this Section is a Class A misdemeanor.

This bill also doesn't affect paintball markers, but the bill is rather poorly drafted with regards to paintball and it is possible that someone may have to go through a court case to clarify the ambiguous language. Specifically, when things like grenades, mines and bombs are explicitly listed and guns are not, guns are likely not intended to be included, but the verbage "or items similar to weapons designed and manufactured for military purposes or replicas of those items" is does introduce some ambiguity, although clearly the majority of firearms are not manufactured for military purposes. We also understand that the bill's effect on props commonly used in paintball scenario games is of greater concern. APPA will work with legislators to amend the language to be more clear or kill the bill in committee.

It is most important to note here that, unlike many times in the past, the goal of the legislation is clearly NOT to negatively impact paintball. The problem is merely that those who drafted the bill are not familiar with all facets of the sport and merely need to be calmly informed of the consequences the bill has on our sport as written so that those consequences can be remedied.

I do believe we are safe now. They added in a new clause stating that it will only effect it if used in a threatening manor, so we are all fine unless we try to rob someone. It has all happened thanks to the support of everyone. Thank you all for any way you may have helped.

[TheAngryDrunkenRussian]

The defense of ownership of paintball equipment should be the same as defense of the ownership of baseball, football, or golf equipment. The right of citizens to participate in sports and activities that do not endanger the general public when practiced by average individuals following the rules and regulations of the sport.

First note this is true coming from a U.S Marine you can easliy kill a man with a golf club to a rifle given the right situaution or a using a saw's all against a robber if you will.

And I'm sry to say this 'cause I grew up in a time when we could play cops and robber's (whatever) with T O Y guns that look damn near real. For police (sry again I really am not Anti)
to not tell the diference between the two is pure laziness. They should be able to just take a glimse at a M4 vs. tricked out 98C and tell the difference.

And another with all these anti firearm liberals running around is like we turned into a bunch of Freaking wussie's. I believe in gun control, should I know that my crazy psycho neighbor is running around with a .44 magnum in his apartment. Yes because I have children ( a son that is 2 and a daughter on the way) But I don't believe in banning cause it will just make people want to break the law. I.E. like underage drinking yes it is set a 21 but what will happen to all those that are 21 and the government bumps it up to 22.

But any who to you all and have a good fight

[Jdogg]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

I see people still posting phone numbers, so let me draw a little more attention to this.

http://paintball-players.org/

Go there, it states that as of 1 February 2006 the bill was amended to exclude paintball. Huzzah!

THIS IS GREAT I MYSELF CALL ALL THE NUMBERS I COULD!!!!!!!!


TOGHTER WE STAND, STANDING TOGHTER, WE WILL NEVER FALL!!!!

[Tao]

There is a big difference between a "replica" and something that looks like a gun. Now anything that has a pistol grip under the action of the gun is considered a semi automatic rifle....so I have seen most nail guns used in construction having a "pistol like" grip, so these would be illegal to?
Also my nice neon green see through water gun with a pistol grip under the action of the gun will also be illegal?
How about my fancy penny launcher with a pistol grip under the action?? :P

I guess the bottom line is hold your gun sideways so that the pistol grip is not "under the action of the gun" :P

[chewy]

There is a big difference between a "replica" and something that looks like a gun. Now anything that has a pistol grip under the action of the gun is considered a semi automatic rifle....so I have seen most nail guns used in construction having a "pistol like" grip, so these would be illegal to?
Also my nice neon green see through water gun with a pistol grip under the action of the gun will also be illegal?
How about my fancy penny launcher with a pistol grip under the action?? :P

I guess the bottom line is hold your gun sideways so that the pistol grip is not "under the action of the gun" :P

LMAO, that reminds me of one of the The Whiteboard strips, linky.

But I'm getting off topic here. The important thing, is that we may have stopped it this time, but that's not to say someone, somewhere, won't try it again. So we just have to be ready and aware.

[Aslan]

I have to say, I was a little interested after reading the first post...but as I continued...I started realizing more and more that this wasn't going to happen. I almost bought it because Illinois is very anti-gun...probably second only to California and Wash. DC...but there's no way they'd go that far.

As I read more and more...I started seeing the thread turn into conservative vs. liberal and that would be a quick way to get the thread out of control.

Glad to see it doesn't involve paintball...I like AGD...and I was thinking of maybe going to a scenario game out Illinois way one of these seasons.

[ntn4502]

good god, I leave this site for awhile and everybody freaks out over something that won't ever happen...do just a little research people!

We have spoken with Representative Daniel J. Burke's office. Burke is the sponsor of HB4132, which originally had some language of potential concern to paintball players. As we previously stated, the goal of the legislation was clearly not to impact paintball, and as of Feb 1, the bill has been amended to merely prohibit using look-alilke weapons in a threatening manner. You can have them, display them, use them in your paintball scenario games, just don't use them in a robbery.

[doc_Zox]

You can have them, display them, use them in your paintball scenario games, just don't use them in a robbery.

which would already be illegal

If i walk into the 7-11 with a Louisville Slugger and BRANDISH it to commit a robbery...

What we have here, is an anti gun agenda looking for a toe hold.
The "representatives" knew the impact of their initial trial balloon.
I would not be surprised if they had some national help in the crafting of the the language.

Now that the language has been adjusted, alot of y'all might want to say "good, now its's all over" and put your head back in the sand until the next time.

A thinking man might keep an eye on the reelection campaign of the sponsor and send a donation to his opposition.

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
('Atlas Shrugged' 1957)

[shartley]

What we have here, is an anti gun agenda looking for a toe hold.
The "representatives" knew the impact of their initial trial balloon.
I would not be surprised if they had some national help in the crafting of the the language.

Now that the language has been adjusted, alot of y'all might want to say "good, now its's all over" and put your head back in the sand until the next time.

[Lohman446]

Theres a point here. If we paniced, MI law as written, ends paintball today in MI, the sale of markers, and there use. Of course, it also eliminates nail guns among other things.

[SlartyBartFast]

Theres a point here. If we paniced, MI law as written, ends paintball today in MI, the sale of markers, and there use. Of course, it also eliminates nail guns among other things.

Yes, but Doc Zox's form of paranoia is counter productive. Laws and society are all about defining the hazy line that separates acceptable behaviour in society from the unacceptable.

While a law may be further towards a certain view point than you'd like, it is no reason to get all in a lather about all laws on that subject. Democracy writes laws, democracy can change laws. To get all conspiratorial and think that one side of any issue has a back door to the process and that if they get one law in they win and will get all the laws they want is ludicrous.