What's Happening with Tippman's Propane Gun??

[OneEyedPimp]

What I don't get is why everyone thinks propane is so dangerous. Propane is a very safe gas, because it ignites. Think of a stove here, there will not be a huge flame if you turn one of the burners on for a second before igniting it. It is a very tempermental gas, and requires a very good Oxygen-to-propane mixture to ignite properly.


And just as a side note, I love my C3. It is THE most consistent gun that I have ever shot; 280,280,281,282,280,279 when I chronoed it last.

[Brophog]

Getting an air source however is not the biggest money maker for stores. Selling PRODUCT is.

Its a pump (first problem) and propane means you are cutting the store out of the chance to sell air and make the customer come back.

Tom says the customer will come back because he has a need. Just because a customer needs product doesn't mean he's coming to your store to get it. However, give him an excuse to go to your store (air) and while he's there he sees something and buys it.

I know that's how I work. Most of my stuff is bought online, mostly because Palmer doesn't have a store nearby! However, when I'm in the store getting a fillup, I try to buy a few small things, if for no other reason than to support the store.

[BlackVCG]

My assessment is this:

Give it some time on the market and feedback from the field and I'll bet you'll see plenty of fields picking this gun up as a rental to fulfill their low cost "pump" option. The upkeep on the gun is next to zero. First of all it's a Tippmann. You can almost spit on them and they're lubricated for another year. And of course their gas cost dramatically drops.

For the player just getting into paintball, this doesn't fit the role but if fields do start renting it you'll see some kids buying it because it was the first gun they used and they liked it.

For the most part I see the majority of the people that buy this gun already being into paintball, having a couple other guns and buying this simply because of the low air consumption. It would be a decent training gun for snap shooting. It should also be great for the scenario market where people actually play with pumps.

[Brophog]

When was the last time you saw a pump as a rental? I remember many years ago I played a game where the field had either Mirage's or SL's (that'll tell you how long ago it was!).

Out of the 30 renters there that day, not one grabbed an SL, even though I'd consider it the better marker. New players don't want to fiddle with pumps.

[Ace12GA]

I want to throw in my $0.02 in regards to the whole propane thing. I have been a big time airsofter, as well as a bush baller.

In airsoft we have been using two kinds of gas for a long time. HFC134A and so called HFC22. HFC134A is nothing more than tetrafloroethane, or PC duster air. Very basic stuff. The trade chemical name is actually HFC134a. Now the next one, HFC22, or Green Gas, is a more powerful gas. It has a higher pressure than HFC134a, something like 30 or 40 more PSI, I honestly forget the exact number. A local fellow discovered last year that HFC22 is actually Propane, and developed a product line to allow the use of Propane with airsoft guns. It was met with some skepticism by US and over seas players, as well as local. It was quickly proven that it was safe, and cheap. A can of green gas from Taiwan is about $30 dollars, and will fill an airsoft mag 10 times, maybe 15. As you all probably know, propane is much much cheaper. $5 for 15 to 20 magazine fills. Now I should note that gas powered airsoft guns do not ignite the gas that powers them, but are operated strictly on gas pressure alone. The amount of Propane released per shot with an airsoft gun is probably 10X that combusted in a C3, yet there has been no cases of explosion. In fact, the gentlemen that made this discovery has tried in a controled experiment to ignite the exhausting Propane at the barrel tip to create an explosion with various methods. All he managed to do was burn some of the plastic on the guns with the ignition source. The Propane would not ignite, no matter what he did. Not having owned a C3, or even used one, I would still have to say they would be very safe to use. The amount of Propane combusted per shot is so small that I could not see it causing an explosion of any magnatude, certainly not enough to cause a failure, and ultimate explosion of the gas source.

More on the C3, I have seen them at 2 of the local shops in Toronto, and both report sales of them. My primary beef with them, and the reason I will not own one is this: they take batteries. Call me cheap, but I prefer mechanical firing systems, not some damn battery that can fail on me, and I have to keep replacing.

[JKR]

I am sure Tippmann hopes that sales are as consistently high as their other paintguns or as high as the likelihood that shartely will take shots at TK and AGD whenever he sees a chance.

[Miscue]

Well here's my question...

SPs patents and such describe pneumatic markers... correct?

Wouldn't an electronic propane marker be completely immune to all this? The end result is the same... a paintball gets shot out of a barrel. But how it gets there is completely different.

[Recon by Fire]

I wonder when the Zippo 2006 model will be out It's inventive, I like the alternate design, but i'm not gonna run out and get one.

[m-a-r-k-7]

I really haven't seen any at the fields where I play, and on the forums I frequent there don't seem to be many with them. But the ones that do have them normally say that they love them, and don't see too many problems with it.

[Aslan]

Tippmann

Hey Tom...

One question, why are you so impressed with Tippmann's ability to make a better marker than Brass Eagle and sell it at Wal-Mart? As far as I can see....Tippmann is successful because:

A) Decent quality/upgradability compared to low end junk.
B) Able to buy them at Wal-Mart and local sports stores.
C) They sort of look like real guns.

If you do the math...all a quality company needs to do to defeat them is make a gun that looks sort of real and sell it in Wal-Mart and in sports stores!

If there was only a way of making a cheaper version of the Tac One....oh well....all this marketing thought is making me thirsty...

[MoeMag]

[AGD]

I don't think it takes that long for this market to figure out if they like a product or not. Just look at the ION if you want an example. Tippman was always succesful in my mind because they offered the best balance of performance, reliablility and cost. Not perfect in any particular area but overall great value.

I imagine the gun is pretty good but it seems to be out at the edge of the market being pump and all. Making a semi auto version is harder than you think becaues you have to clean the air out of the chamber each shot. Thats what the pump action does. Probably doable but way more complicated.

AGD

[Recon by Fire]

Well just hypotheticly speaking; if AGD were to produce a propane pump-Mag, put me on the list!

[REDRT]

I just got done reading this whole thread. 1st off, propane? I suppose, but is there any need for another form of powering a marker and is there any advantage? I'm not liking the fact propane is flamable. This new marker is a pump as I understand. Rather low market place. A semi-auto would get more propane timmanns out there, but maybe that was the point. Fewer people torched this way. I would immagin we'll see a skit done on "king of the hill" soon enough. Lastly, "For God sakes don't give this or anything like it to Cheney". :spit_take

[marpat]

I just got done reading this whole thread. 1st off, propane? I suppose, but is there any need for another form of powering a marker and is there any advantage? I'm not liking the fact propane is flamable. This new marker is a pump as I understand. Rather low market place. A semi-auto would get more propane timmanns out there, but maybe that was the point. Fewer people torched this way. I would immagin we'll see a skit done on "king of the hill" soon enough. Lastly, "For God sakes don't give this or anything like it to Cheney". :spit_take

You can get like 50,000 shots off of one 16 oz propane tank.

http://www.tippmann.com/product_guide/markerDetails.aspx?categoryid=4

there is the tippy website link

http://www.tippmann.com/pdfs/products/C3/propane_vs_c02.pdf

comparison of propane to Nitrogen CO2 in pdf format.