Cocker Nonsense...

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  • gmag
    Lucid Dreamer
    • Jun 2001
    • 409
    #1

    Cocker Nonsense...

    I was just chatting with my friend on AIM, and we got into the discussion of a cocker's accuracy. I told him it was proven that it has the same exact accuracy as a mag, displayed through the use of a benchmount. He didn't believe me, so I'm asking for unbiased responses as to why this is a fact. Mainly, scientific or logical responses would be preferred. Even a diagram would help. I just want to show him that the accuracy and range of a cocker is a myth. All responses are greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Brett

    P.S. Throw some elf jokes in too!
    Last edited by gmag; 01-27-2002, 07:58 PM.
    "Men think they think upon great politcal questions, and they do; but they think with their party, not independently; they read its literature, but not that of the other side; they arrive at convictions, but they are drawn from a partial view of the matter in hand and are of no particular value. They swarm with their party, they feel with their party, they are happy in their party's approval; and where the party leads they will follow, whether for right and honor, or through blood and dirt and a mush of mutilated morals."
    ~Mark Twain
    Tags: None
    • OldSchoolMag
      Underpant Stealing Monkey
      • Jul 2001
      • 494
      #2
      Actually, I believe they are. With the exception of Micro, SFL, and Extremes, cockers ARE more accurate. The barrel system in the Mags are, while easier to field clean, less accurate for the reason that they have less threading than cocker barrels. This leads them to shake more, depending on o-rings on the barrel, and such. Of course, should a cocker barrel be stripped 'round the threading, the same would occur. Other than that, they are exactly the same. Now, distance, is nearly the exact same.

      OSM
      Coming Soon:
      Who knows anymore...

        Comment

        • gmag
          Lucid Dreamer
          • Jun 2001
          • 409
          #3
          Is this true?

          What about the benchmount expirement?
          Last edited by gmag; 01-27-2002, 07:58 PM.
          "Men think they think upon great politcal questions, and they do; but they think with their party, not independently; they read its literature, but not that of the other side; they arrive at convictions, but they are drawn from a partial view of the matter in hand and are of no particular value. They swarm with their party, they feel with their party, they are happy in their party's approval; and where the party leads they will follow, whether for right and honor, or through blood and dirt and a mush of mutilated morals."
          ~Mark Twain

            Comment

            • Army
              Moderator of DOOOOOOOOMMM!

              • Oct 2000
              • 5785
              #4
              Well, Mr. Newton had a few thoughts on the subject a while ago....

              But if your friend is determined to deny Mr. Newtons proven facts on time, gravity, distance, and velocity, how about your buddy reading this:

              http://www.paintballstar.com/randebtherre.html



              BTW, it's a benchREST

                Comment

                • nutz
                  l0l
                  • Oct 2001
                  • 1412
                  #5
                  lol benchpress..... i believe ur talking about a benchmount...

                  on the subject of accuracy i think the cocker may put balls into the same spot more consistanly than a mag i dont know why but it felt like that when i played with a friends cocker... and i know about mags cause i own 2
                  ........$$...........$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
                  .......$$$$................$$$......
                  ......$$..$$...............$$$......
                  .....$$....$$..............$$$......
                  ....$$$$$$$.............$$$......
                  ...$$........$$....$$$...$$$......
                  ..$$..........$$....$$$..$$$......
                  .$$............$$.....$$$$$.........

                    Comment

                    • j7million
                      l33t
                      • Jan 2002
                      • 47
                      #6
                      kinda on the subject. . .

                      How are mag barrels easier to clean than other barrels. . . Also how do battle swabs and strait squeegies things work. . . you shuve them in the barrel and just push all the paint back in to it?

                      I'm kinda deprived I'v never seen a real pb tournie where people clean their barrel after a break. . I just shoot it out. . cept it dont' work good with my mag. Unless I'm playin' in the woods and have plenty of time to take off barrel and run my squeegee through. . .
                      -=Jason=-

                      Automag owner since 1/11/01


                      "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack." George S. Patton

                      "Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward. And freedom will be defended, make no mistake: The United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts." - President Bush

                        Comment

                        • LaW
                          Why play?
                          • Oct 2000
                          • 3124
                          #7
                          Mag barrels are easier to clean because you can tip the gun, twist pull clean and retwist in and play
                          Taking a long needed leave of the sport to finish school and tour the country

                          b2k3w/pds, vaporized, vapor valve, aka sidewinder, chaos chip, palmer rock lpr, CP barrels, 68/45 hyperflow

                          B2k3 w/pds and bunch of upgrades for sale

                            Comment

                            • Butterfingers
                              PhD in Automagology
                              • Jan 2001
                              • 2263
                              #8
                              Originally posted by OldSchoolMag
                              Actually, I believe they are. With the exception of Micro, SFL, and Extremes, cockers ARE more accurate. The barrel system in the Mags are, while easier to field clean, less accurate for the reason that they have less threading than cocker barrels. This leads them to shake more, depending on o-rings on the barrel, and such. Of course, should a cocker barrel be stripped 'round the threading, the same would occur. Other than that, they are exactly the same. Now, distance, is nearly the exact same.

                              OSM
                              Nothing but a myth...

                              The mathematical deviation for the "play in the barrel" providing you have tight o-rings is less than one inch at 100yards this is 3 times the effective range of a paintgun. your ability to aim at that range would account for 100 times more deviation than the slight play in the barrel.

                              Bottom line is it does not matter.

                              In bench rest tests using the same barrel Mags have the same accuracy as other high end guns.
                              Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

                                Comment

                                • Twiek
                                  Registered User
                                  • Sep 2001
                                  • 81
                                  #9
                                  A few things

                                  First and formost is consistancy. If a gun is more consistant, then the balls will be traveling in a tighter range of velocities, and will therefore have less variation in the distances they travel. This is most noticible in the vertical direction.... Just do a quick test with good paint, and you'll find that the gun has tighter groupings left-to-right than up-and-down.

                                  That being said, a well-tuned cocker will have very good consistancy, and can be, for the most part, better than mags.

                                  In addition, I agree with Old School Mag in the fact that the normal barrels do vibrate a lot when shot. While they only move very small angles, the difference it makes in shooting distance is noticable. While the varation may be small, it does add to the other "problems". [EDIT: The jury's still out on this one. While tight o-rings reduce this to negligible porportions, not all mags in normal operation have tight o-rings, and therefore contribute to the apparent difference in accuracy]

                                  But mostly, I think the difference in accuracy is in the user. Some people can keep the gun steadier with a longer-but-smoother trigger pull, some work better with electronic triggers, and some are more accurate with crisp triggers. Personally, I find the long-but-smooth pull of the cocker to move the gun less than even an electronic trigger. With electronic triggers, I tend to mash the trigger hard enough to torque the gun and throw it off. Just think about it... some people posses the ability to shoot a gun more accurately than others; What says that the gun can't affect that ability?
                                  Last edited by Twiek; 01-27-2002, 08:41 PM.
                                  Brent "Twiek" Crowe
                                  NCSUPaintball.com

                                    Comment

                                    • SoupRman
                                      Hyper
                                      • Jul 2001
                                      • 652
                                      #10
                                      Re: kinda on the subject. . .

                                      Originally posted by j7million
                                      How are mag barrels easier to clean than other barrels. . . Also how do battle swabs and strait squeegies things work. . . you shuve them in the barrel and just push all the paint back in to it?

                                      I'm kinda deprived I'v never seen a real pb tournie where people clean their barrel after a break. . I just shoot it out. . cept it dont' work good with my mag. Unless I'm playin' in the woods and have plenty of time to take off barrel and run my squeegee through. . .
                                      striaght shot-you press the spring type rod int eh back to make the disk at then end be parrelel to the barrel and slide it in, then you release making it go perpendicular to the barrel and pull all the paint out.

                                      battle swab-because of the swab it collects paint as you push, and then pull.

                                      you can waste paint and time tryign to shoot through with the right barrel. but if you can't and want a quick and thorough way, get one of the above.
                                      Red 2k1 C&C LCD
                                      45/4.5k Pure Energy
                                      Skill to bunker you .
                                      A.K.A. PaintBallin on PBcity Forums
                                      referral another referral

                                        Comment

                                        • liigod
                                          under god = under facism
                                          • Dec 2001
                                          • 795
                                          #11
                                          My f5 shoots ball on top of ball on the target every time. And it does it FAST. Faster than any angel ive ever shot and i have shot mostly adrenalin angels. My mag while it is sick, shoots in a small shot gouping, but not ball on ball. This is with good paint to barrel matches, and both with 10 inch boomsticks.
                                          ** Your image was deleted because a huge ass "protection image" comes up. The site hosting that image doesnt allow for other sites to pull from it. Like Angelfire. So host it some where else or maybe attach it to a friendly corner post and link it from there. Sorry and thanks. - Webmaster **
                                          Sly Irish Guy ^_^

                                            Comment

                                            • gmag
                                              Lucid Dreamer
                                              • Jun 2001
                                              • 409
                                              #12
                                              is this all?

                                              I thought I would get better responses. The argument can still be swayed either way in this thread. Any more explanations as to why the cocker has the same range as a mag would be appreciated. My friend still doesn't believe me. Cmon Tom.
                                              "Men think they think upon great politcal questions, and they do; but they think with their party, not independently; they read its literature, but not that of the other side; they arrive at convictions, but they are drawn from a partial view of the matter in hand and are of no particular value. They swarm with their party, they feel with their party, they are happy in their party's approval; and where the party leads they will follow, whether for right and honor, or through blood and dirt and a mush of mutilated morals."
                                              ~Mark Twain

                                                Comment

                                                • pip_999
                                                  Canadian Bunker Boyz
                                                  • Sep 2001
                                                  • 768
                                                  #13
                                                  calling on the owner of AGD
                                                  come on tom, let see your response

                                                  or maybe budd orr can stop by and argue either way
                                                  Canadian Bunker Boyz - CoCaptain
                                                  Rainstorm Cocker FS/FT
                                                  [email protected]

                                                    Comment

                                                    • gmag
                                                      Lucid Dreamer
                                                      • Jun 2001
                                                      • 409
                                                      #14
                                                      Cmon Tom.
                                                      "Men think they think upon great politcal questions, and they do; but they think with their party, not independently; they read its literature, but not that of the other side; they arrive at convictions, but they are drawn from a partial view of the matter in hand and are of no particular value. They swarm with their party, they feel with their party, they are happy in their party's approval; and where the party leads they will follow, whether for right and honor, or through blood and dirt and a mush of mutilated morals."
                                                      ~Mark Twain

                                                        Comment

                                                        • Butterfingers
                                                          PhD in Automagology
                                                          • Jan 2001
                                                          • 2263
                                                          #15
                                                          Want the truth. My e-mag is consistently more consistent than my roomates palmerized cocker. Match the barrel to the paint, and keep the effective length of the barrel shorter than 10 inches and I get chrono readings +,- 2 fps.

                                                          Even if the barrel wiggled one milimeter in each direction, which is extreme, if you do the trigonomery at range it would be negligable.

                                                          Stop listening to myths.
                                                          Did you hear about the new european weapons contracts? France is going to make the wooden sticks Spain making the little white flags

                                                            Comment

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