Cocker Nonsense...

[Trunnion]

to explain the range dillema, use simple physics. any two guns firing paintballs at the same velocity and angle to the horizontal will have the same range. thus as long as the cocker is firing at the same speed as the mag, they'll have the same range

[joker4hire]

I was on the PBReview website, and I saw this about range

This true or is this guy full of it?

http://www.pbreview.com/156/1/10/

**ANOTHER OPINION ABOUT RANGE**(concerning the opinions below)

Guns do not shoot the same range and accuracy with all the previously mentioned variables the same. There is another variable called crown turbulence.
CROWN TURBULENCE is turbulence made right outside the tip of your barrel every time you shoot. This gust off air throws the ball off its mark slightly and is mostly noticed towards the end of the paintballs path. OPEN BOLT guns (like the angel, E-mag, and most guns) have a high crown turbulence and therefore are not incredibly accurate. Also, the lower the pressure that your gun shoots, the lower the crown turbulence. ClOSED BOLT guns (like autococker and exalibur) have very little crown turbulence and are more accurate. If all variables are the same like barrel, paint, N2 system, etc. then the autococker, excalibur, and other closed bolt guns will out perform all other open bolt guns due to less crown turbulence and lower pressure. So this just means that at a distance they are much more accurate and hit the same spot consistantly.

[Trunnion]

correct me if i'm wrong(and i very well may be) but isn't crown turbulence caused at the muzzle of the barrel?

[mac2k4]

yeah well that from paintball reveiw i pretty dumb, i have closed bolt, open bolt markers from, M3 sniper(black dragun) angels(dark, adren. stock) shockers, impulses and so many cockers and none of them shoot any damn different

when your playing, half the time your snap shooting, or putting a straeam out, and accuracy isn't that important anyways. i just shoot an angel, cause it feels good, and thats it.

[Minimag4me]

if the same paintball comes out of the same barrel at the same velocity it will go the same distance and have the same accuracy. its logical think about it.

that crown turbulace thing is false because porting and other barrel methods keep it down. mags have a barrel pressure of under 100(very low) because the powertube tip and power piston releases air slower than other markers(works sort of like low pressure but with higher pressure). some low pressure guns have higher barrel pressures than mags. having said that in theory cockers/closed bolt would have more crown turbulance because the air can only escape around the ball after it is fired(unported barrel) but in a mag/angel etc it can also go back out of feed tube which lowers efficiency but is effective.

between cockers and mags i find to be both equally accurate because in a cocker it has that 4 pound bolt and back block combo but smooth trigger and a mag has a snappy trigger(can through off accuracy) but has little kick

[Ityl]

do I believe some guns are more accurate than others? yes ALL GUNS AREN'T CREATED EQUAL!!! therefore they all cannot have the same accuracy.

[thecompany]

Back to the original issue... is there a difference, bencmounting or not?

Benchmounting, no there is no difference. The same ball in the same barrel at the same velocity will have the same accuracy.

But benchmounting is not real life. The fact is that a blow-forward 'gun (Automag) sends the bolt traveling forward before the air leaves the bolt. This forward motion can cause the barrel to 'tip' very slightly forward, or down, when the 'gun is fired. Though it is very slight, the 'tip' can make a large difference over long ranges.

Closed bold 'guns (Autococker) release the gas before the mechanics go to work. This allows the ball to leave the barrel before the mechanical movement can affect the 'gun, or the path of the paintball.

This all came from a study that was originally posted on a forum somewhere (???), and was re-posted on our forum at www.rumbleme.com. It got lost from our forum in our recent upgrade, but I will see about getting it back in so you guys can come read it. It makes a lot of sense.

[thecompany]

Just found the old post. Come check it out in the Tech Chat forum on RumbleMe.com

[Minimag4me]

your right that autocockers release gas before the first shot but what about a string of shots then there are affects, it affects it more than the so called "tip" i have never noticed(seems like a negitive mag myth to me) with a foregrip the tip should be nothing because you hand right there should counteract it. if it does exist it is negligable

go to deep blue and check out closed vs open bolt it has this discussion answered

[thecompany]

What affects it more that the 'tip?' I don't understand what you're saying... no offense. Just curious what you mean about the effects on the 'Cocker.

[Minimag4me]

sorry,

after a cocker fires the back block and bolt move backword to cock the hammer and load the next ball. i was refering to that as the kick on the cocker that can throw off accuracy (imo) more than the mag "tip".

remember the cocker too has a spring pushing the hammer and cocking rod forward which theoritically can cause a "tip" also. tom mentioned this once its called precoil, he said that someone should measure the superbolt vs the hammer/cocking rod to determine the theoritical ammount of precoil(with taking in account bolt/hammer speed etc)

[Trunnion]

the tip he's referring to occurs when the bolt moves. for example, in a tippmann 98, which is open bolt, the bolt must move forward to strike the power tube and fire the gun. the movement of the bolt shifts the weight forward and can cause a nearly unnoticable shift in weight. i know what he's saying about the mags bolt, but not only does it not move as far as something like a 98, it also seems(and i may be wrong, i've never weighed my tippmann bolt against my mag) that the mag bolt has less mass than the 98 bolt. while i can see that there would be a small amount of 'tip', as you put it, i don't know that it would be enough to severely affect the shooter.

[Nitroduck]

Ok.........

Cockers and Mags have the same accuracy overall.

However, there are fine points on minor accuracy changes on both guns....

Cockers *might* have a lil better consistancy (in some cases) which can cause better accuracy at long distances.

Cockers have front grips for better stability (stock)

Mags have worse stock barrels (if stock barrels at all)

Past that......Same accuracy. I've tested both and they have the same accuracy if they're getting the same FPS variance and I have a similar barrel on both (like both having DYEs).....

[gmag]

Ok, these answers are better. Thanks guys.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by Butterfingers
Want the truth. My e-mag is consistently more consistent than my roomates palmerized cocker. Match the barrel to the paint, and keep the effective length of the barrel shorter than 10 inches and I get chrono readings +,- 2 fps.

Even if the barrel wiggled one milimeter in each direction, which is extreme, if you do the trigonomery at range it would be negligable.

Stop listening to myths.

I have exactly the OPPOSITE experience. My emag (which came to be rather famous here at AO) on N2 with boomstick and fresh Hellfire (matched to bore) against a 2k1 RF nearly stock cocker on CO2.

We lined up about 50 feet from a standard aluminum trashcan and each fired 10 shots from each gun. Taking into account lack of experience with the emag on my friend's part (I've shot many cocker and mags) the emag STILL was very inaccurate when compared, shot to shot, to this nearly stock cocker on C02.

So, there are your facts. Not benchrest, but real world testing... same type barrels, same bores, same bags of paint.

The cocker should be less accurate, due to the Co2 not being as efficient a propellant, correct?

Why then was the high end emag on N2, with the same bore and make of barrel, with the same paint, shot from the hands of an experienced player, so inaccurate when compared to the cocker?

:)
DR