my new masks--white

[Lohman446]

lohman, seeing as manike designed the new vents and e vents, im sure they comply with all rules on the book, im also deffinite that these things wiill protect your eyes more than you can imagine, not that that is what is being argued here. I know simon knows the saftey rules better, than most people in the industry, and i garauntee you he complied to each and every single one.

I actually use a pair of Avators and never felt exposed in them - but looking at those pictures its pretty easy to understand Beemers reaction to them.

[Beemer]

I actually use a pair of Avators and never felt exposed in them - but looking at those pictures its pretty easy to understand Beemers reaction to them.

Ya pretty easy. Lets see, shorten the range, increase the BPS, keep FPS the same and use less protection. Yup thats a no brainer

Compare those to an old seven or spectra for coverage. Why not just use an old JT snapper?

This game used to be smart what happened?

When it comes to safety and smart this industry is not on the right road IMHO.

[Lohman446]

Ya pretty easy. Lets see, shorten the range, increase the BPS, keep FPS the same and use less protection. Yup thats a no brainer

Compare those to an old seven or spectra for coverage. Why not just use an old JT snapper?

This game used to be smart what happened?

When it comes to safety and smart this industry is not on the right road IMHO.

300FPS - a 3 gram projectile - what does that come out to in force? I have heard some pretty low numbers on what it takes to break the human jaw... That being said, looking at a pair of Avatars, in place, never seemed to expose anything more than any other mask

[phantomhitman]

nice masks, i gave up waiting for my white e vents.....

[PnueMagger]

V for Vendetta

funny you mention that, because the facemasks origionally (mk 1 and 2) were made from the bottom halves of what i believe were scott bad *** goggles, may have been a different mask, but i know it was a scott

In "V for Vendetta" you will notice that in the end scene, where all the people are walking towards the riot police, that the roit police are all wearing pb masks. I noticed that in like half a second and liked the movie just a little more for that.

[magman007]

on the topic of mask sightings, dont forget in both blade trinity and the system of a down song BYOB the vforce shield was utilized

[Beemer]

300FPS - a 3 gram projectile - what does that come out to in force? I have heard some pretty low numbers on what it takes to break the human jaw... That being said, looking at a pair of Avatars, in place, never seemed to expose anything more than any other mask

You cant tell me there isnt less protection. Compare to an old JT Flex 7 or a new Proto Switch
Put each one on and draw a line on your face along the bottom edge of the mask and you will see the difference

These numbers will be slightly higher at max Wt.

Max Wt.=3.5G and force is measured in Joules


The Formula for calculating Joules is as follows:

E=1/2mv2
E= Joules m= mass in kilograms v= velocity in meters per second

FPS= Feet Per Second MPS= Meters Per Second

Paintball Conversions


Weight (g).... FPS ... Weight (kg) ... MPS... Joules..
3.18 .. ....250 .. .. 0.00318.. ..76.2 .. .. 9.23224
3.18 .. ....275 .. .. 0.00318 .. ..83.82.. .. 11.17101
3.18 .. ....300 .. .. 0.00318.. ..91.44.. .. 13.29443

[Lohman446]

You cant tell me there isnt less protection. Compare to an old JT Flex 7 or a new Proto Switch

True - but that does not immediatly indicate that because this is smaller it cannot conform to the standard. Its smaller, yes, but is it non-conforming? I looked at what the Avatars looked like on, and well I did not consider the standard at the time they did not shock me as leaving me exposed or in danger.

[CoolHand]

You cant tell me there isnt less protection. Compare to an old JT Flex 7 or a new Proto Switch
Put each one on and draw a line on your face along the bottom edge of the mask and you will see the difference

These numbers will be slightly higher at max Wt.

Max Wt.=3.5G and force is measured in Joules


The Formula for calculating Joules is as follows:

E=1/2mv2
E= Joules m= mass in kilograms v= velocity in meters per second

FPS= Feet Per Second MPS= Meters Per Second

Paintball Conversions


Weight (g).... FPS ... Weight (kg) ... MPS... Joules..
3.18 .. ....250 .. .. 0.00318.. ..76.2 .. .. 9.23224
3.18 .. ....275 .. .. 0.00318 .. ..83.82.. .. 11.17101
3.18 .. ....300 .. .. 0.00318.. ..91.44.. .. 13.29443

Sorry, you've got some errors there. You are calculating kinetic energy, not force. Joules are a measure of energy (just like a watt and calorie), not force. The SI unit for force is the Newton. To get a force, you need a mass and an acceleration, just as your second PP slide shows. Joules is not what you are after (though you can do a conversion to get a useful number from what you have calculated there).

The compressive strength of bone is 16 x 10^7 Pa (N / m 2) That is pressure (force per unit area), or stress if you like. Converted to English units, the compressive strength of bone is ~23,216 PSI. That's not weak by any means. Limestone has a comparable UCS (makes sense, when you realize that bone is something like 80% calcium, and lime stone is just about 95% calcium carbonate).

All you need to do is calculate the cross sectional area of impact, and the weight of the paintball in lbs, and you can figure out the velocity in FPS that you'd need to hit your jaw with to crush the bone. I can tell you one thing, it's gonna be pretty damned high.

The simple fact is, that no matter how much doom and gloom you guys go looking for, it's pretty damned hard to get seriously injured by a paintball, as long as you keep your eyes and your ear canals covered. Everything else will survive a hit at point blank range just fine.

If people want to use tighter fitting masks, so be it, they will get more welts on their necks and foreheads. That, is what I call a "personal problem", or what my EManagment buddies would call a YP (for "Your Problem) or a "Column 2" (where as a "Column 1" is My Problem, a "Column 2" is Your Problem, see also - YP). When I first started playing, I wore a JT softstream that the dog chewed the face mask off of. Taking a shot in the nose from 10ft sucks, let me tell you, but I can still smell things just fine.

My honker took a shot from a paintball and lived to sniff another day, as contrasted with a baseball, which it intersected with some years before, said honker came away broken and bloody from that confrontation. I say PB equipment is just fine, baseball equipment in the other hand . . . . . . .

*A quick googleing will yield this place that lists the compressive strength of bone, among about 500 others ---> http://www.rwc.uc.edu/koehler/biophys/2f.html

[Beemer]

Sorry, you've got some errors there. You are calculating kinetic energy, not force. Joules are a measure of energy (just like a watt and calorie), not force. The SI unit for force is the Newton. To get a force, you need a mass and an acceleration, just as your second PP slide shows. Joules is not what you are after (though you can do a conversion to get a useful number from what you have calculated there).

Either way its mass and speed. To give Lohman a better answer then, its around ten to twelve ft.lbs, depending on mass and speed. 3.5g at 300fps is max.

The compressive strength of bone is 16 x 10^7 Pa (N / m 2) That is pressure (force per unit area), or stress if you like. Converted to English units, the compressive strength of bone is ~23,216 PSI. That's not weak by any means. Limestone has a comparable UCS (makes sense, when you realize that bone is something like 80% calcium, and lime stone is just about 95% calcium carbonate).

Well there is alot of ST to get damaged between that ball and my bones so the bone is the last thing I care about.


The simple fact is, that no matter how much doom and gloom you guys go looking for, it's pretty damned hard to get seriously injured by a paintball, as long as you keep your eyes and your ear canals covered. Everything else will survive a hit at point blank range just fine

No it wont


Who said anything about gloom and doom? I started playing when you were five years old and will continue to until it gets fubared. Played ProAm for ten years. Lucky for me I hit burnout when it started to get too stupid.

A paintball can knock you out. Put your finger across your barrel and shoot at 300fps and tell me how it survives


If people want to use tighter fitting masks, so be it, they will get more welts on their necks and foreheads. That, is what I call a "personal problem", or what my EManagment buddies would call a YP (for "Your Problem) or a "Column 2" (where as a "Column 1" is My Problem, a "Column 2" is Your Problem, see also - YP). When I first started playing, I wore a JT softstream that the dog chewed the face mask off of. Taking a shot in the nose from 10ft sucks, let me tell you, but I can still smell things just fine.

You can call it what you want. I just like to be proactive rather then reactive. Its a fact Safety and standards are not at the top of the list when it comes to makeing the money

Peace Out

bad color choice sorry[changed it]

[CoolHand]

Peace Out

bad color choice sorry

Yes, very. Shoulda used red.

So you started playing in 1985? Were you there for the first game? 'Cause you couldn't have been too far behind.

I have shot my finger at point blank before (obviously not on purpose), and it did hurt like a sum*****, but it didn't break it. Kinda numb for about an hour, and then throbbed for another hour or so, but that's about it.

I've gotten shot in some damned uncomfortable places over the years. Busted bottom lip and tip of the nose with the aforementioned mangled softstreams. I took one right behind the ear while wearing JT Spectras, snuck right by the hard ears and got me. I've been bunkered and taken multiple point blank shots to the head. Arms, legs, groin, fingers, tip of the junk (OMG, the worst pain, from just a nick), you name it, likely I've gotten shot by a paintball on it.

I've got scars on my forearms from close shots, and nearly every place bruises, but I have yet to come away from these encounters with anything worse than the effects of a trip and fall.

Until I actually see or experience an injury that is directly attributable to a paintball impact, I'm not gonna worry about it. I've got so many other things to deal with, injury by PB impact is not real high up on my list of things to fear.

If any of my hobbies kills me, I'm betting it's gonna be stock car racing.

[Beemer]

Yes, very. Shoulda used red.

Ya I changed it. The hour glass was empty, I had to go.

So you started playing in 1985? Were you there for the first game? 'Cause you couldn't
have been too far behind.

I was off it was 86. Had to look at my member card, still have it, from my home field.
Nope I missed it. That was 82 or 3 I think. Back then Lively[national] tournies were 15 man 45 min. Nice long rush of that adrenaline.

I have shot my finger at point blank before (obviously not on purpose), and it did hurt like a sum*****, but it didn't break it. Kinda numb for about an hour, and then throbbed for another hour or so, but that's about it.

Ya But.........What was the mass and Speed :spit_take

I've gotten shot in some damned uncomfortable places over the years. Busted bottom lip and tip of the nose with the aforementioned mangled softstreams. I took one right behind the ear while wearing JT Spectras, snuck right by the hard ears and got me. I've been bunkered and taken multiple point blank shots to the head. Arms, legs, groin, fingers, tip of the junk (OMG, the worst pain, from just a nick), you name it, likely I've gotten shot by a paintball on it. I've got scars on my forearms from close shots, and nearly every place bruises, but I have yet to come away from these encounters with anything worse than the effects of a trip and fall.

Ya I feel your pain times two. Splatter in the eye[I thought the gog mod was good,WRONG]
put me on my back in the curl position.[I called hit pretty dam loud] No way I could lift the gogs, middle of a fire fight.
I was saved by a paintball angel, a player judge. He sees me go down and asks, are you ok do you need help? I swallowed pretty hard when I screamed, yes I need help.[not words I wish to repeat or hear really] He stops the game and proceeds to help with a canteen he is packing, lucky me, all is good after a flush.

Point blank, arm and a half length, friendly fire, rec ball, center hit to ear. Full face and side PMI mask, made by Technacore now AGD. It was field gun at 290 at the time. No idea of mass. It turned slow mo and I started to fall back but some how managed to hit my knees.
I got myself off the field and was done for the day. Couldnt believe it, 6'3" 185lbs and in excellent shape at the time and a little ole paintball droped me like nothing.

I tripped and fell, hit my head on a hard object, got a concussion, I think that is why I have brain damage :spit_take


Until I actually see or experience an injury that is directly attributable to a paintball impact, I'm not gonna worry about it. I've got so many other things to deal with, injury by PB impact is not real high up on my list of things to fear.

Well thats reactive. That player Lasoya shot at PSP Texsa hit the ground. What more do you want to see? How would you gear up[protection] to play in NXL? Thats FA 15bps, 300fps right?
I dont play at that level any more but my experience tells me I would go out with more protection then what is currently being played with at that level. You can say woose, I say smart.

This is from my retired pro am point of view and I play all rec now. The thing I know to be true after 20yrs is it all trickles down.

If any of my hobbies kills me, I'm betting it's gonna be stock car racing.

Not if you are smart, use ALL safety gear available and dont OD on the adrenaline.

Peace Out