3 way to trip sear - too much like pneumag?

[Lohman446]

I am not looking to turn this into a discussion of patent law and morals. I have heard rumor that Punishers at one point built a mag that used a three way to trip the sear - is this true? I have also heard that the 3-way alone to trip the sear is not the essence of the pneumag patent and why it does not apply as prior art. I understand it is different than the pneumag, and the reasoning I am asking is I am toying with an idea for an electro mag conversion that would use a three way to trip the sear. If I do this I am going to line things up first, get a prototype out, and try to not step on anyones patent. Without a ton of knowledge, before I invest a lot of time into the idea, I am just trying to see if there are major road blocks once I get the idea more up. I think I can come up with an acceptable answer to the electronics portion of it, I need to know if I am going to have to beg others in the process.

[Chronobreak]

i dont know who the patent lies with, or even whos that might be included in since no one has gave a list of aprts or good detailed pics of the frame

pneumags and conversions have been around for atleast 8 years or so by know.

the only thing that seems to be certain is theyr is a good way to do it and a not soo good way. and a certain way to set it up if you dont want to limit performace.

i dont know if punishers version had limitiations or worked well, it might have been a hackjob to the frame/gun

oh and lohman, learn how to speel before you make a thread

[Lohman446]

i dont know who the patent lies with, or even whos that might be included in since no one has gave a list of aprts or good detailed pics of the frame

pneumags and conversions have been around for atleast 8 years or so by know.

the only thing that seems to be certain is theyr is a good way to do it and a not soo good way. and a certain way to set it up if you dont want to limit performace.

i dont know if punishers version had limitiations or worked well, it might have been a hackjob to the frame/gun

oh and lohman, learn how to speel before you make a thread

The first title was spelled horribly (gee, what I surprise, I can't type) and rather inflamatorry, I changed it enough.. I hope

[Arstron]

I asked about using a modified 3 way to trip the sear at one point in time but was shot down and told it wouldnt work. IMO, if you plug the middle hole and simply use the 2 outside (front and back) then you should be able to move the 3 way plunger forward and back depending on which hole air goes in. If it is electro pneumatic it will not matter much, but you will have to run a higher preasure then with a mpa-3 actuator. So for just a pneumatic frame (no electronics) you would have a heavier trigger pull.

I will leave the legal part up to the experts though.

[Lohman446]

I think, as long as the 3-way is not assiting the trigger pull (no air assisted trigger) and the electronics make the trigger pull causing the three-way to trip the sear I should be ok. Well, at least on the pneumag side

[CoolHand]

Are you talking about the three way itself physically moving the sear, or are you talking about using a three way to actuate a cylinder that trips the sear?

Punisher's pneumag used a three way (actually it's a five way, but that's just semantics) to actuate a cylinder in the frame, which tripped the sear.

My EPneu frames work in the same manner, though they use a solenoid valve instead of a five way.

I don't see any reason why you would want to use a five way pneu switch to physically move the sear, essentially turning it into a very small ID cylinder. That doesn't make any sense to me (which is why I asked the question above).

[nicad]

I am not looking to turn this into a discussion of patent law and morals. I have heard rumor that Punishers at one point built a mag that used a three way to trip the sear - is this true?

No rumor.. Lee (Punisher) built 9 of them, first one was in 1995.

(I hope the link works- his site is down)

I have also heard that the 3-way alone to trip the sear is not the essence of the pneumag patent and why it does not apply as prior art.

Which pneumag patent are you referring to?

I understand it is different than the pneumag,

it IS a pneumag! :)

and the reasoning I am asking is I am toying with an idea for an electro mag conversion that would use a three way to trip the sear. If I do this I am going to line things up first, get a prototype out, and try to not step on anyones patent. Without a ton of knowledge, before I invest a lot of time into the idea, I am just trying to see if there are major road blocks once I get the idea more up. I think I can come up with an acceptable answer to the electronics portion of it, I need to know if I am going to have to beg others in the process.

Are you using a mechanical 3-way that the trigger moves, or an electropneumatic 3-way solenoid?

[Arstron]

Are you talking about the three way itself physically moving the sear, or are you talking about using a three way to actuate a cylinder that trips the sear?

I don't see any reason why you would want to use a five way pneu switch to physically move the sear, essentially turning it into a very small ID cylinder. That doesn't make any sense to me (which is why I asked the question above).

That is what I was talking about, my use for it though was to replace the front part of the sear that catches the bolt and then using a bigger one to actuate the on/off pin. It would take to much work to get it to work which is why I stoped with the idea, but a 3way was the onlything small enough I could think of that could be mounted in the rail. :) I am not sure which way lohman was talking about now, I thought he meant the way I desribed above.

[Lohman446]

Are you talking about the three way itself physically moving the sear, or are you talking about using a three way to actuate a cylinder that trips the sear?

Punisher's pneumag used a three way (actually it's a five way, but that's just semantics) to actuate a cylinder in the frame, which tripped the sear.

My EPneu frames work in the same manner, though they use a solenoid valve instead of a five way.

I don't see any reason why you would want to use a five way pneu switch to physically move the sear, essentially turning it into a very small ID cylinder. That doesn't make any sense to me (which is why I asked the question above).

Practically I am going to ahve to play with a lot of things to try to come up with something that works, as I really have not played with beyond stock on paintball markers. My general thought was to A) get one of the guys who knows more than me to help me, and B) to use the same theory that moves the backblock of a cocker to move the sear, through a pneumaticlly operated ram? Solenoid... ehh... see this is where a lack of working knowledge of other markers is going to get me in trouble. Apply air to a ram to trip the sear - apply that air through an electronic solenoid,