Tank explodes in Madrid

[Lohman446]

I remember when i first started playing, I was always told to just put a couple drops of oil in my asa, then put the tank on and cycle the marker a couple of times to oil my gun...

At your ASA the pressure is 800PSI (or whatever your reg is set to) which is a massive difference from 3 or 45K

[jsdatjsd]

(Plus havent you heard of people managing to unscrew the valve from Co2 tanks and making them into little rockets off there markers)

Gosh.....removing the valve without letting the pressure off first seems kinda......stupid?

Hey, back in the day, when I had my co2 tank, I wasn't sure if I should store the tank with pressure in it, so whenever I stored it, I released all the pressuere over a couple minutes.

Is that a bad thing to do?

JD

[MarkM]

The reason this person did this was to attempt a seal on a leaking fill nipple as it is one of those things that people have tried and found that on occasion will work...the simple fact that is is potentially lethal seems to have slipped by these people, much the same way as a leaking fill nipple is often hit with a allen key stuck inside to attempt a seal...mmm 1000psi (minimum) and a loose object...that's going to end well
To date the only serious injury that has happen in Europe (French leg of the Millenium) has been the near blinding of an english guy whose macro fitting blew up at the fill station...the result is macro fittings that actually have correct burst pressures and macroline that has correct burst pressures for the use in Paintball...NONE of the major paintball equipment makers supply ANY fitting or hose that comes close enough to be honestly regarded as safe. If any of you actually belong to the p8ntballer forum or wish to join then find a guy called Tom Allen and buy his fittings and hose they are a fair bit more than the ones you are using but what price your eyes or worse?

[SpecialBlend2786]

At your ASA the pressure is 800PSI (or whatever your reg is set to) which is a massive difference from 3 or 45K

point.

But is there any risk of oil getting into the reg and then into the tank when i do this?

[Lohman446]

point.

But is there any risk of oil getting into the reg and then into the tank when i do this?

Realistically - not really. I'm sure someones going to tell me I'm nuts. But that pressure is going to push most anything out

[SpecialBlend2786]

Realistically - not really. I'm sure someones going to tell me I'm nuts. But that pressure is going to push most anything out

ok, good deal.

PS. if I die, I'm haunting your *** to the grave

[FiXeL]

ok, good deal.

PS. if I die, I'm haunting your *** to the grave

Good luck. The chance of oil flowing against a 850psi airflow are just as slim as you walking on water. It is perfectly safe to put a few drops of oil into your asa and gas up the marker and dryfire to distribute the oil in the marker.

This accident gives everybody playing a heads up to take compressed air seriously. This time there were no people seriously hurt, but this really scares me... what if you are standing in line for a refill, and some noob flashfills a tank with oil in it?

[Beemer]

Bu you don't require the heat to ignite the oil. Filling a bottle will put enough oxygen in there to ignite - increasing the pressure will lower the flash point (perhaps as low as ambient temperature). At this point you can get a fire. Granted, a higher temperature in the tank (along with a lower flash point) may cause problems where there would not have been had there not been a slam fill, but it is certainly not a prerequisite. If there is oil in the system simply filling may be enough to lower the flash point of that oil enough to ignite..

You will have to show me the numbers before I buy this. How much lower will the flash point be under pressure? Did you read the MSDS? It starts at 350F TOC. I doubt it would go down to ambient temp under pressure since they distribute it in a pressurized can. You still need the heat or spark. If you could make a spark inside your tank, would it blow?

NONE of the major paintball equipment makers supply ANY fitting or hose that comes close enough to be honestly regarded as safe.

Guess you have to know where to look. I wouldnt say none.

Any chance you heard or know what tank and reg it was?

[Lohman446]

You will have to show me the numbers before I buy this. How much lower will the flash point be under pressure? Did you read the MSDS? It starts at 350F TOC. I doubt it would go down to ambient temp under pressure since they distribute it in a pressurized can. You still need the heat or spark. If you could make a spark inside your tank, would it blow?

They distribute oil in a pressurized can - to 3000PSI? Think of a true diesel engine - whats the ignition source? Besides, I did the normal vagueness of people who talk about safety issues. More pressure lowers the flash point - I never stated to ambient temperature (I think I didn't). It was a statement of base physics really. Though I am told the term flash point may have been incorrect.

[MarkM]

NONE of the major paintball equipment makers supply ANY fitting or hose that comes close enough to be honestly regarded as safe.

Guess you have to know where to look. I wouldnt say none.

Any chance you heard or know what tank and reg it was?

I stick with what I said NONE of the major PAINTBALL makers supply very high rated fittings and hoses for certain not for the pressures that we actually use, you can buy fittings that are well in excess of the pressures used but then you have to go outside of the paintball industry, so yes fittings and hoses are available but NOT from the paintball suppliers...again that isn't to say that an individual store hasn't sourced the same fittings and hoses I am talking about but they certainly are NOT fitted to the marker as supplied.

I haven't heard which tank other than the same information you can read online...right now it is all smoke and mirrors to what actually happened....that is some people have said one thing some another.

[hitech]

Think of a true diesel engine - whats the ignition source?

In a diesel the heated metal in the head provides the extra heat necessary. Hence the glow plugs before everything is warm. Also, the rapid compression provides heat...

[Lohman446]

In a diesel the heated metal in the head provides the extra heat necessary. Hence the glow plugs before everything is warm. Also, the rapid compression provides heat...

Understood - but there is no "spark". The flash point is lowered by compression - granted not to 70 degrees but enough that it ignites.

[hitech]

I stick with what I said NONE of the major PAINTBALL makers supply very high rated fittings and hoses for certain not for the pressures that we actually use.

What about these:

http://store.airgun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=322&categoryID=16

I assume AGD is a major enough... (Sorry, couldn't help it...)

[hitech]

Understood - but there is no "spark". The flash point is lowered by compression - granted not to 70 degrees but enough that it ignites.

If I remember correctly, nothing requires a spark or flame to ignite, just enough heat. Sparks and flames (what us lay-people think of a ignation sources) are just very hot. I don't know what temp a typical diesel gets to on compression prior to it dieseling, but I'll bet it is several hundred degrees. Get anything hot enough and it burns.

[PumpPlayer]

You're talking about the difference between the flash point and the auto-ignition temperature. An ignition source is required to initiate combustion at any temperature below the auto-ignition point.


Depending upon the compression ratio, pre-ignition pressure in a diesel engine is around 1000 psi. A far cry below what you put into your HPA tank. However, you don't have the heat generated by compression to deal with. If you were to take the volume of air which would fit into your HPA tank and instantly compress it and squeeze it inside, the temperature would be so high it'd be impossible to hold onto (assuming the tank actually survived the high temperature). The air that comes out of the compressor, bottle or fill station is already compressed and cooled. The increase in temperature that you see when you fill a tank is caused by resistance losses in the air line and fill nipple causing the gas to loose energy in the form of heat. Once filled, P/T = P/T kicks in and the pressure drops as the gas cools again. Filling a tank slowly does two things. First, because the velocity of the gas through the line is less, there is less resistance to flow and therefore less energy lost to heat. Second, filling the tank over a greater period of time allows more time for heat to dissipate to the atmosphere (through the air and your hands) and so the tank is still being filled as it looses energy.

If you want to get the most out of your fills, use a fill station with the shortest hose possible and the least number of bends or elbows in the line. Remove your tank cover to let heat dissipate faster. Fill as slowly as practical to minimize resistance losses.



Putting oil into a tank isn't exactly like a diesel engine because the temperatures are nowhere near the same. It's still dangerous, though, and you shouldn't ever do it.